1892 Columbian Expo - Lovely Tone - Overgraded

[jgrinz]

My Interpretation of this coin as it was bumped up (2) grade points because of color.

I am not convinced of its luster, details or grade to the assigned grade.

What is your opinion on this coin as to grade?

Do you feel as though this coins 'look' may have had an influence on its grade?

My feeling going on the pictures and having owned numerous numbers of these coins is that it is a 61 ... if I was a colour bumper maybe 62.

This coin is certified by a TOP three TPG ... your thoughts ?

 

I will reveal this coins grade after a few people chime in.

[BillJones]

You did not tell us what the consigned grade is. Therefore it's impossible to say if the coin has been over graded.

 

I think I see a rub in the sail and maybe on Columbus' face. If that's true the coin is a 58/62. By that I mean it's an AU-58 that made it into a MS-62 holder.

 

Now here is an example of the opposite situation.

 

 

The colors on this coin are even more impressive in person than they are in this photo. The dealer from whom I purchased this coin submitted it three times to get a higher grade. Each time PCGS called an MS-63 The coin without the toning is an MS-64 IMO.

 

But the puchline is the dealer submitted the coin in 1994, and I bought it that year. What do think it would get today? It's in a green label PCGS holder.

[jgrinz]

I purposely did not say the grade Bill ... I agree with PCGS assessment on that coin as I have found 'in my experience' that the sail ribs have a LOT to do with grade. The rear sail being the toughest to find ribs on and thus a higher grade if there.The obverse is QUITE good though.

[bsshog40]

The pics are a little small but going by what I see. Looks to have nice details on the sails, top mast, and hemisphere's. The fields don't look bad from the pic either. I would have to say MS66.

[pendragon1998]

It's attractive, but I can't grade a coin accurately from an image that small.

[jgrinz]

I like it a little bigger myself but is all I/We have to work with.

[James_OldeTowne]

I am going to sound crazy, but that image makes it look like AU-55 to me.

[BillJones]

I am going to sound crazy, but that image makes it look like AU-55 to me.

 

If THAT COIN ends up in an AU-55 holder, I'm a buyer all day long. The rub does not matter. If you could buy a million coins like that for AU-55 money in a single year, your income for that year would be set.

 

Well, mostly set.

 

You get into "market issues" when you grade a coin like that in AU-55. It will sell pretty fast.

[jgrinz]

I am going to sound crazy, but that image makes it look like AU-55 to me.

 

If THAT COIN ends up in an AU-55 holder, I'm a buyer all day long. The rub does not matter. If you could buy a million coins like that for AU-55 money in a single year, your income for that year would be set.

 

Well, mostly set.

 

You get into "market issues" when you grade a coin like that in AU-55. It will sell pretty fast.

 

I agree ... How about PCGS MS65 ?

 

 

[JCM-Houston]

It looks like some rub on the sail to me, so I'd go with an AU55-58 depending on the luster.

[BillJones]

OK, Given the pictures, I'd say that at MS-65, the coin is over graded. My coin should be an MS-66.

[jgrinz]

This was a 64 I had and sold ... IT is about right on where I would like to see a 64/65 coin

[Mozin]

No way I can grade from those tiny pictures.

[TomB]

You're kidding yourself if you can parse individual and consecutive MS grades from those images and I am completely serious.

[Frank Provasek]

Looks like MS65 would be the market grade.

[mommam17]

I like the look of the PCGS 65 Columbian. I would have to have it in hand to determine if it is nice enough for my collection. A CAC sticker would help me decide if I was going to buy it or not, and always with a return policey!

[Bruceswar]

hmm makes me wonder what mine would grade.... Nice luster that the picture did not capture...

 

[BillJones]

Why do you want an MS-65 Columbian, especially a MARGINAL MS-65 Columbian? There are a lot of nice original MS-64 examples that cost only about 25% as much. I have generally not cared for the MS-65 Columbian half dollars that I have seen, especially considering the price.

[Bruceswar]

hmm makes me wonder what mine would grade.... Nice luster that the picture did not capture...

 

 

Edited to add the sail lines are all there.

[MarkFeld]

Based on the images, if the MS65 coin which is the subject of this thread is over-graded, than just about all MS65 and MS66 Columbian's are too. It looks as nice as or nicer than many MS65's and I think some of you folks are going way overboard in penalizing the coin to the extent that you are. Please go out and look at a bunch of other MS65's, then report back to us.

[BillJones]

Mark, your comment is exactly the reason why I don't care for the vast majority of MS-65 or higher graded Columbians that I see. It's not as bad as the situation with the Sesquicentennial and Monroe commemorative half dollars, but it's close. Some coins are just not worth it in high grade because the design and die work just fall short most of the time.

[jgrinz]

In MY Mind - BRUCES is a 65 with nice color to boot

 

[mommam17]

The Columbian in 65 sells for a very wide range of prices. I bought a nice looking one in a Heritage signature auction for $310. They are offered sometimes at nearly double that price. I agree with Bill Jones about Sesqui`s and Monroes. 64`s are my coins, with 65`s not worth it. Same with my Hawaiin in 64, wasn`t worth it to get a 65 for 2K more. You don`t pick up that much eye appeal!

[Bruceswar]

In MY Mind - BRUCES is a 65 with nice color to boot

 

Mike you serious? Speaking of things... check out the new AXE in my guitar thread!

[BillJones]

$310 is less than Gray Sheet bid for either of the Columbian half dollars in MS-65. The 1892 currently bids at $425 while the 1893 is pegged at $450. In fact $310 is only a little over the Blue Sheet sight unseen price.

 

Part of the reason for the low price has to do with the fact that the market for the old commemeorative silver coins is weak right now. It also may have had something to do with eye appeal of the coin that was offered.

[jgrinz]

In MY Mind - BRUCES is a 65 with nice color to boot

 

Mike you serious? Speaking of things... check out the new AXE in my guitar thread!

 

If the coin is as you said - The picture does not show all the ribbing though.

 

I saw it YES .. nice 'pick up' .. I hope you ripped someone off on it

 

 

[Bruceswar]

In MY Mind - BRUCES is a 65 with nice color to boot

 

Mike you serious? Speaking of things... check out the new AXE in my guitar thread!

 

If the coin is as you said - The picture does not show all the ribbing though.

 

I saw it YES .. nice 'pick up' .. I hope you ripped someone off on it

 

 

The coin or the guitar

 

I got the coin in this thread off a dealer for $10.00

[mommam17]

I really liked the Columbian. It was lot 61317 from the Houston Sig. auction on 11-29-07. Many were sold at that auction with the same look. I`m sorry I sold it but 4 Columbians is enough for me although t is VERY hard for me to resist this coin with the right look. I have 3 that are CAC stickered that are almost white, medium toned and deeply toned. Laying them out side by side is a favorite for me!

[texasrichard]

When I posted one I recently bought several thought it was overgraded as well. This surprised me because I thought it was nice for the grade with booming luster and some color. The Rev is nicer than the Obv but all in all I think its a 65...

 

[jgrinz]

When I posted one I recently bought several thought it was overgraded as well. This surprised me because I thought it was nice for the grade with booming luster and some color. The Rev is nicer than the Obv but all in all I think its a 65...

 

One of my PET peeves is oversized pictures which I believe was the case in your first posting. This picture makes a tremedous change in my opinion of the coin.

With the other pictures, if I am not mistaken, I thought it was graded too high .. I am almost in the thought that 65 might be a shade too low using these as pictures. I would say a couple of abrasions/nics short of a 66 now

 

It has also become my favorite over the ONE I use to have