Anyone here experts on counterfeit gold?

[stinkycheese1]

It's my goal to eventually become an expert in spotting counterfeit gold. Now if I could just concentraite all my obessions on that

 

Does anyone here know if J.P Campbell will be at the ANA national money show this phoenix?

 

I'm taking a class there, conservation authentication and grading, its a 3 day class. I'm guessing each day corresponds to each of these topics. Since I live in arizona, its the only choice for me right now for learning authentication better rather than the counterfeit course in colorado. Maybe someday I can attend that class.

 

I saw this post ATS. Apparently it's a bunch of counterfeit raw $5 indians. Does the color look off on any of these? I just cannot imagine the quality of these counterfeits, it boggles the mind. These coins are notoriously hard to grade because of their incuse design. They also are hard to authenicate. I'm guessing these counterfeits came from the middle east.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Those are all fakes? Wow, those are pretty good. Yeah, the color looks funny on the top row middle, and a little funny on bottom row right. Wow, those are good fakes.

[MunkyMan95]

You can't determine a counterfeit coin by color, since a lot of the time they're made of the same fineness gold as the original coins. These particular coins, IIRC, are 22K.

 

Also IIRC, the coins were part of the mans grandfather's estate, he sent them to ANACS, and they were all returned as counterfeit.

[TomB]

The color likely appears odd because of the hotspot induced by the flash. There is little information in the image to tell what diagnostics are present or missing, but this is just a tiny portion of what is out there. Buy yourself a counterfeit detection book on gold and you will know infinitely more than looking at this image.

[Conder101]

You can't determine a counterfeit coin by color, since a lot of the time they're made of the same fineness gold as the original coins.

Actually sometimes you can, if you know the particular series well enough. The color is not just from the fineness but also from the source of the gold and what trace metals are in the alloy. For example early San Francisco gold coins tend to have a slightly higher silver content than their Philadelphia counterparts because the local metal source was higher in silver (Native ore rather than the melted down gold/copper alloyed foreign coins. Also even after refining the gold coming from raw ores will still show a trace alloy content distinctive to the specific mine it came from.) Some coin issues are known to have a certain color and if you try and fake them the fakes just don't have the right color to them. If you are good enough to know what the proper color looks like, fakes can be spotted by their off color. This is usually only true for some of the rarer issues where most or all of the coins were struck from a single deposit of gold. (My color perception is not good enough to make those kinds of determinations. But I would imagine with training the average person could get good enough to spot such fakes.)

 

There is no way you are going to be able to do such a comparison through photos though. Too many variables of light intensity, placement, temperature (color spectrum of the light), film stock or image inhancement that may have been done, differences in how the image was developed (for actual photos) Differnt settings on monitors for digital images. You could take multiple pictures of the same coin and no two would look the same just by making slight changes in the setting and/or lighting.

 

 

[jman425]

I had a counterfeit Indian $5 too, that was made in the Middle East from real gold. On that coin, the initials BLP looked a little off and the Liberty had uneven pressure, leaving a telltale "crescent" wave when seen angled towards light.

[stinkycheese1]

I had a counterfeit Indian $5 too, that was made in the Middle East from real gold. On that coin, the initials BLP looked a little off and the Liberty had uneven pressure, leaving a telltale "crescent" wave when seen angled towards light.

 

Very interesting. Did you send it into a grading service?

Thanks for sharing!

 

[DJCoinz]

Wow, those are some very good counterfeits.

[just-john]

Here's a site for you Stinky www.coinauthentication.co.uk/newsletter9.html

[jtryka]

Those are all very high quality fakes (and no, I cannot tell they are fakes from the photos, just based on what you've said).

[jman425]

I had a counterfeit Indian $5 too, that was made in the Middle East from real gold. On that coin, the initials BLP looked a little off and the Liberty had uneven pressure, leaving a telltale "crescent" wave when seen angled towards light.

 

Very interesting. Did you send it into a grading service?

Thanks for sharing!

No... a local dealer, whose shop I frequently visit, was able to spot it. It was good enough to fool his partner, but Gene Henry has seen many, many coins and is a contributor to the Red Book and he spotted it a mile away.

[zrlevin]

On the 1911, you can tell it is counterfeit by the way that the date runs off of the edge of the coin. This is the most obvious characteristic of counterfeits dated with this year.

 

Here is a real one for comparison:

[CHABSENTIA]

I am not really into the gold coins except for the Gold American Eagles I bought form the U.S. Mint. The last Coin World( not the latest one) has an article on Pyrite which is also known as Fools Gold and says it is a brighter yello in colr than real gold.

 

 

Has there ever been an instance where Counterfeit coins have been made with Pyrite?

[jtryka]

On the 1911, you can tell it is counterfeit by the way that the date runs off of the edge of the coin. This is the most obvious characteristic of counterfeits dated with this year.

 

Here is a real one for comparison:

 

I am not so sure about that, my Indian half eagle and quarter eagle have the dates fine, but the Liberty at the top is running off the edge, if that can happen on one edge, why not on the date edge?

[bhhooks22]

Curious guy's , I've got a couple of 20lb. 24 carrot gold "plated" Sherle Wagner bath faucet fixtures from a remodel. Is there enough "gold" in that amount of weigh , even though it's only elecrified gold plated?.......Thanks , if anyone can help.........BH.......

[Oldtrader3]

I doubt that your plumbing fixtures would have more than about $35.00 (one gram) worth of gold plating (with gold at $925.00/oz.), total.

[bhhooks22]

Thanks. Won't quit my day job........ meh.BH...

[zrlevin]

On the 1911, you can tell it is counterfeit by the way that the date runs off of the edge of the coin. This is the most obvious characteristic of counterfeits dated with this year.

 

Here is a real one for comparison:

 

I am not so sure about that, my Indian half eagle and quarter eagle have the dates fine, but the Liberty at the top is running off the edge, if that can happen on one edge, why not on the date edge?

 

I believe that it is date specific. Have you looked at your coins in comparison to others of the same date?

[Conder101]

Has there ever been an instance where Counterfeit coins have been made with Pyrite?

Not likely. Iron Pyrite is a crystaline form of iron sulfide. It is significantly lighter than gold and is a brittle crystal. The only way you could use fools gold to make a counterfeit gold coin would be to grind it to a powder, mix it with a binding agent and then pressure cast it. I doubt if it would fool anyone.

[CHABSENTIA]

Thanks.

[BECOKA]

 

 

Unfortunately most of the characteristics of Counterfeit Indian gold are too small to be seen in photos. I have a decent size book on counterfeit gold. it's tough even when you know what to look for.

 

As Condor accurately corrected, in many cases the easiest way to tell is by color. When you have seen enough you just know by looking.