DLRC takes the plunge.!!

[rrantique]

I don't own any of these, but thought this was a interesting development.

 

 

http://www.pcicoins.com/

[MikeInFL]

Yes, a very interesting turn of events indeed.

 

So DLRC will now slab, auction and sell coins.

 

That's an interesting vertical market but one that I, as a consumer, would question because of the obvious conflict-of-interest.

 

The proof, however, is in the pudding (or the slab)...Mike

[EZ_E]

Interesting. I think that they have a better than average chance at succeeding and can maybe take the #3 spot among the TPGS's if they grade accurately and have good customer relations.

[Conder101]

Nice announcement but the company history is completely messed up.

[gmarguli]

Sounds like a loser.

[WoodenJefferson]

I don't know what the selling price was, but rest assured, it would not have been as costly as having to go out a buy all new equipment in order to get a business as such up and runnning.

 

Now, buying out the name...something that is not tangible, well, that's a whole other issue!

 

I have a feeling that if DLRC makes it with this venture, we will be seeing a name change in the not too distant future.

 

Once you get an awful taste in your mouth, a consumer never seems to forget that experience.

 

Interesting turn of events none the less, I wish them all the luck.

[TomB]

I haven't read the PR, but if DLRC plans on using the PCI name then I think this will ultimately fail.

[Dcoin]

I wonder if EBAY will add them to the chosen list?

[Bruceswar]

DLRC responded to this accross the street. Check out what he has to say about the name...

 

"Thank you for all for the considerate postings I've read so far. I certainly expected to hear a firestorm of responses to this endeavor but I am really excited about this acquisition. Frankly, because the auction was a sealed-bid process we had plenty of time to think about the decision but very little time since last Saturday when we were "awarded" the high bid to decide the details of day-to-day operations.

 

For starters, I will respond to the most obvious (and very good!) question as to why we would buy PCI and keep the name, rather than start from scratch. Indeed, if we had lost the bid I would have gone that route. However, I believe that PCI is a good brand name that was mismanaged for a long time. We will distinguish all the "new PCI" slabs with a brand new label design and, ultimately, an improved holder. We will bring to the new PCI all the customer service aspects that we have honed over 20 years at DLRC. We will build a robust web site with modern features and, most importantly, we want the new PCI coins to stand on their own in the marketplace. We will grade conservatively by all standards and DLRC will make a two-way market in the coins.

 

I realize that there is a lot of baggage with the old PCI name, but I think we can turn the perception around quickly with our actions. Time will tell.

 

One more thought about our "target" market: Just as we have built a company around catering to coin collectors, we want to build PCI as a grading service for the same folks.

 

Regarding questions about a law suit against the ANA: I am not privy to any of the details regarding the law suit; nor am I/we party to those law suits. I have no interest in pursuing those actions. We want to go forward in the most positive manner possible.

 

Lastly, this is not a make-or-break effort on the part of DLRC. We have been enjoying great success lately and we love the current coin market. We are up to two Internet auctions every week and volume has been steadily climbing. We moved to a 12,000 square building six months ago with the goal of growth! This is just the first step and you can count on our presence in the coin market for a long time. I personally love coins and technology -- and I'm having the time of my life with all of this.

 

Thanks again for your comments and feedback. I am taking notes as we work on re-building this company."

 

Taken from across the street....

[Just Bob]

Looking forward to watching how this plays out.

[gmarguli]

For starters, I will respond to the most obvious (and very good!) question as to why we would buy PCI and keep the name, rather than start from scratch. Indeed, if we had lost the bid I would have gone that route. However, I believe that PCI is a good brand name that was mismanaged for a long time. We will distinguish all the "new PCI" slabs with a brand new label design and, ultimately, an improved holder. We will bring to the new PCI all the customer service aspects that we have honed over 20 years at DLRC. We will build a robust web site with modern features and, most importantly, we want the new PCI coins to stand on their own in the marketplace. We will grade conservatively by all standards and DLRC will make a two-way market in the coins.

 

I realize that there is a lot of baggage with the old PCI name, but I think we can turn the perception around quickly with our actions. Time will tell.

 

Spoken like a person with even a tiny clue about marketing.

[jackson64]

If it does work--and I believe it has a chance if they find a strict/fair balance with their grading---it will be interesting to see where they will land in collectors& investors eyes...highest dollar because of stricter standards?...somewhere between PCGS and NGC?.....a notch below at the ANACS level? where the coins/grades are respected but they still sell cheaper?.....only time will tell

 

I do think it's crucial that they have a distinctive slab that is far removed from anything resembling the old PCI slabs....even a new logo

[World Colonial]

I wish them well but would not be interested in having any of my coins graded by PCI.

[EZ_E]

I wish them well but would not be interested in having any of my coins graded by PCI.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[James_OldeTowne]

I'll guess that this venture will do well. DLRC is a well funded company, and they have the resources to make this work.

 

I knew the grader who was responsible for the conservative grades in the old green-label holders. If PCI brings graders of his caliber back on board, they should succeed.

 

Personally, I think the market will welcome an alternative grading service.

[EZ_E]

The BIG QUESTION is: What is the incentive to use them?

[Tradedollarnut]

Personally, I think the market will welcome an alternative grading service.

 

I don't. Not unless PCGS and/or NGC really tank. Unless they do, there's simply no market for another 'conservative' grading service. Many have professed to try, but they've all failed. They all end up loosening their standards to attract submissions.

 

Perhaps if submissions [ie: profits] aren't the short term goal, then it can be done.

[123cents]

I recently have submitted coins for grading to PCGS, NGC, and ANACS. All but NGC's turnaround times were awful. I think if PCI will grade conservatively, keep grading fees low, and have fast turnaround times they can succeed.

[braddick]

There is room for a service that does not require you sign up (and pay) for a "club" so you can send that company funds for services (grading).

 

I believe, with the proper promotion (eBay accepting them?) it'll be a big hit, and if not, a minor one at least.

 

I'd use them!

Sometimes you just want to bundle up a grouping of odd-ball coins and send them in, hassle free, and within a couple weeks get them back- graded (problem free, or not).

[Oldtrader3]

I am willing to keep an open mind about this situation. I have done business with DLRC for many years and always have been treated fairly, buying or selling coins. I believe that John and his staff represent a well run coin dealer operation. Let's see how they do with PCI. By his admission, John recognises the perception baggage carried by the old PCI label. It is up to DLRC to change this perception. I am willing to submit coins and give their new grading service an opportunity to earn my TPG submission business, when they are ready.

[gmarguli]

There is room for a service that does not require you sign up (and pay) for a "club" so you can send that company funds for services (grading).

 

I agree. I like to call that room the ANACS & ICG room.

 

 

I believe, with the proper promotion (eBay accepting them?) it'll be a big hit, and if not, a minor one at least.

 

It took a year for eBay to finally stop allowing them and the other lower TPGs and that was at the pushing of a person who had a decent name in the industry and some high connections. It's doubtful that eBay will change their mind any time soon just because PCI has been sold.

 

 

[braddick]

ICG requires (or, at least they used too) the use of their submission package.

 

ANACS requires coins be placed inside flips and their submission form used.

 

PCI would accept submissions from me with coins housed inside sandwich bags and 'invoices' written on the back of a cocktail napkin.

 

ANACS would take up to three months to grade coins (economy). PCI would take five business days (economy).

 

PCI is/was hassle free. ANACS and ICG? Not so much.

[gmarguli]

ICG doesn't require their purchased submission package. They said they did on the web site, but if you called them or just submitted without it, it was OK.

 

I've submitted to ANACS using a printout from an Excel spreadsheet without problem. Yes, their economy turnaround times sucked. I can't say that NGC or PCGS are really any better.

 

 

PCI would accept submissions from me with coins housed inside sandwich bags and 'invoices' written on the back of a cocktail napkin.

 

I'm not so sure I'd label this "hassle free" instead of "unprofessional" on their part. :shrug:

[James_OldeTowne]

Personally, I think the market will welcome an alternative grading service.

 

I don't. Not unless PCGS and/or NGC really tank. Unless they do, there's simply no market for another 'conservative' grading service. Many have professed to try, but they've all failed. They all end up loosening their standards to attract submissions.

 

Perhaps if submissions [ie: profits] aren't the short term goal, then it can be done.

I'm interested in the other services that you mention that tried to be "conservative". Which ones were you referring to?

 

By "alternative", I am thinking of PCI in terms of someone whose submission fees are low enough that a lower end of the market will be opened up for certification. Right now, if you need a $50 coin certified (say, for authenticity, etc.), NGC and PCGS are just not cost effective. The old PCI was, and if the new continues to be, I perceive a wide open market available to them.

[braddick]

ICG doesn't require their purchased submission package. They said they did on the web site, but if you called them or just submitted without it, it was OK.

 

I've submitted to ANACS using a printout from an Excel spreadsheet without problem. Yes, their economy turnaround times sucked. I can't say that NGC or PCGS are really any better.

 

 

PCI would accept submissions from me with coins housed inside sandwich bags and 'invoices' written on the back of a cocktail napkin.

 

I'm not so sure I'd label this "hassle free" instead of "unprofessional" on their part. :shrug:

 

Or, as I'm sure they'de rather I hadn't done that, extremely unprofessional on my part.

 

Besides, who but PCI would grade this?:

 

[Tradedollarnut]

I'm interested in the other services that you mention that tried to be "conservative". Which ones were you referring to?

 

 

ICG.

[jackson64]

Tradedollar made a good point about profit being a factor. I think though that this is where DLRC may be at an advantage....if they can just make enough to cover overhead for a few years, they will slowly establish a place in the market of top-dependable graders. The fact that they are already an established and respected Auction company can only help in reducing the need to turn a quick and consistent profit...

 

In other words, if they just keep it afloat for a while, don't sell-out their grading standards for mass submissions, their existing ventures should help stabalize them until they gain markey acceptability

 

PS: a few of their coins in Heritage and Teletrade auctions.....a few legendary coins in PCI slabs....and a registry that allows PCI, NGC and PCGS coins definately wouldn't hurt either...

[World Colonial]

Maybe, but that would depend upon someone's definition of "success". If by "success" it is meant that they can make into the second tier with ANACS and ICG, then probably. If this means either joining or displacing NGC or PCGS then I see no chance of that in the near future.

 

I have only submitted my coins to NGC and though I think their fees are getting too expensive, the primary reason why I submit my coins to them is because of market acceptability. The value or at least the open market price of the coins I collect is much greater in an NGC (or PCGS) holder than raw. This is not the case in an existing PCI holder and in my opinion until that changes, they will have a hard time making it past second tier status. All or most of the expensive and better coins in their holders will get cracked out, just as I've heard some prior posters on this board state about NGC to PCGS for some US coins.

[jackson64]

that's too funny..I just had a crazy vision of people cracking out PCI coins to try for upgrades by submitting them to NGC and PCGS...

 

 

 

 

 

PS: I know that's not what you were saying, the thought just popped in my head

[TheMightyDuke]

So, does that mean that any PCI slabbed coin (after the new company is in full swing) will automatically command much higher prices? There is mentioned in the open letter, :

 

"You can also expect a different result than you previously expected on submissions. We will be much tougher on submissions than the "old" PCI. The new PCI coins will stand on their own in the marketplace. And David Lawrence Rare Coins will stand behind the new PCI with market support. We will make an active two-way market in the new PCI slabs"

 

Does this mean that we are to immediately be EXPECTED to pay more for PCI slabs, or perhaps, close to what NGC or PCGS coins sell for? The 'We will make an active two-way market in the new PCI slabs' simply means they will have a majority of their own (PCI) slabs on their own (DLRC) website, and they will have those cons priced as though they are in NGC or PCGS slabs. THIS will NOT work. The OLD PCI slabs (the Photo slabs, or the green label-10 digit slabs) are still going for soft/easy/cheap money, and they were graded correctly, many times they were undergraded. I think the only way to make this work is to have it be two seperate entities. It worked for David Hall, but DLRC (while a good dealer in its own right) is no David Hall. David Hall saw an opportunity when the hobby needed it...and NGC followed...it worked for them because the hobby NEEDED this type of 'neutral, third party grading'. This is for a WHOLE different reason, and it will most certainly come out in the laundry.

 

Not to mention, where are the graders going to come from? They need WORLD CLASS graders...graders that are already EMPLOYED by TPG's....who would be hesitant at BEST to go to a company that may not make it....who are they left with to grade coins on par with NGC and PCGS? THIS should be an interesting nightmare to watch unfold in front of our very eyes. The first thing we will see is the immediate charging of ridiculous prices for PCI graded coins...on the DLRC website. You wont see them any other place until the first coin show where they can trade/sell with other dealers, then when people try to flip them. How will the dealers react to dealing with new PCI slabs at first? You just KNOW DLRC will want all the money for these newly slabbed coins...gonna be fun to watch!

 

Oh, one more thing....do you think PCI slabbed coins will be eligible for CAC stickers, once DLRC takes over? This could be a MAJOR mess for everyone concerned, but, ultimately, the BIGGEST mess will be for us collectors.