Anyone else seen the 2008 Silver American Eagles?

[BULLY]

 

Specifically, I am talking about the 2008 mint state Silver American Eagles, graded by NGC as "Early Releases."

 

I've gotten 40 of them now, and I have to say, I am VERY disappointed. Sure, I heard about and read about the "re-design" with the minor variations essentially, and how some theorize that this could lower the quality of the coins.

 

However, I have 40 coins graded MS69 by NGC. Generally speaking, MS69 coins are almost indistinguishable from MS70 coins in many cases. In other cases, there are slight imperfections that are noticeable, possibly to the naked eye.

 

In this case, of the 40 coins, maybe FIVE don't have SIGNIFICANT visible imperfections. I mean serious dings, nicks, contact marks in the field, sun, breast, letters, rim, etc -- and LOTS of them on each coin, like half a dozen or more, just on the obverse. Same on the reverse, on the eagle feathers, and so on.

 

Is it the coins? Is it NGC? (Not trying to blaspheme here, just shocked at what I am seeing). For comparison, I took three coins from 2007, also Silver American Eagles. These are in slabs from NGC simply graded "Gem Uncirculated" -- not even MS69. Those three coins are all almost visibly perfect to the naked eye - no serious imperfections like the bulk of the 2008 coins. One of those three has the slightest of marks, but nothing even like the MS69s of 2008, and it's just a generic "Gem Uncirculated" graded holder from NGC.

 

Thus my big question: Is it just me? Is anyone else finding this?

[DC Dawg]

I will let others talk about the grading, but you said something that I found curious:

 

Sure, I heard about and read about the "re-design" with the minor variations essentially, and how some theorize that this could lower the quality of the coins.

I must have missed something. What redesign? What minor variations were to be made?

 

It's early as I type this. I will have to look at the 2008-W Proof ASE and compare it with the 2007-W after I've had my coffee!

 

Scott

[Zoins]

I will let others talk about the grading, but you said something that I found curious:

Sure, I heard about and read about the "re-design" with the minor variations essentially, and how some theorize that this could lower the quality of the coins.

I must have missed something. What redesign? What minor variations were to be made?

Check out this thread ATS. A few changes include the U in UNITED, the O's, the ~, and the distance between the words and the rim, especially on the bottom half of the coin. Many changes in the font.

[BULLY]

NGC has a posting with ALL the details -- they are calling it more a re-hubbing, so I apologize if I created an uproar with my word choice. I didn't sleep overnight, so my sleep deprivation may have made for a poor description.

 

However, here is the link with some photos from NGC:

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=955

 

Personally, I find it MUCH easier to see the differences in person than in the photos, once someone takes the time to alert you to the differences that is. I could easily have slipped by 2008 without noticing the minor changes.

 

While my original question about the quality of the 2008 Mint State Silver Eagles remains, I'll add another question:

 

Why on this earth would the Mint decide to change a few letters here and there, an upper case to a lower case, the style of the tilde? I mean, is it me, or is that just plain odd? Was someone NEW making the dies and wanted to inject his or her own personal style for posterity? ACK!

[CHABSENTIA]

I had mentioned this earlier in another Forum. HSN with the 2008 A.S.E. in MS70 in ANACS Holders was the first to come out and were $299.99. Coin Vault in NGC Slabs MS70 was $249.99.

 

All overpriced . PCGS was on E BAy with them at $191.00.They were the only ygame in town. Now they are starting to show up and I have seen a few dealers outside of EBAY with the E.R. MS70 in NGC holders for $145.00

 

 

This is the same nonsense as the 2007 when it first came out. People were charging these high prices and eventually you could buy a 2007W E.R in MS70 for under $75.00 on Ebay. The People on T.V. are still advertising the 2007W as $149.99 and they claim that is a sale price.

 

With the 2007W the spiel was that it might rival the 2006W. With the 2008 it is the change in design on the reverse.

 

I received a Proof 2008 from the Mint.

[bsshog40]

I received my Proof from the mint and as I didn't actually disect it, I put it under a 5x mag and it looks pretty nice to me.

[coinman1794]

 

 

In this case, of the 40 coins, maybe FIVE don't have SIGNIFICANT visible imperfections. I mean serious dings, nicks, contact marks in the field, sun, breast, letters, rim, etc -- and LOTS of them on each coin, like half a dozen or more, just on the obverse. Same on the reverse, on the eagle feathers, and so on.

 

Is it the coins? Is it NGC? (Not trying to blaspheme here, just shocked at what I am seeing). For comparison, I took three coins from 2007, also Silver American Eagles. These are in slabs from NGC simply graded "Gem Uncirculated" -- not even MS69. Those three coins are all almost visibly perfect to the naked eye - no serious imperfections like the bulk of the 2008 coins. One of those three has the slightest of marks, but nothing even like the MS69s of 2008, and it's just a generic "Gem Uncirculated" graded holder from NGC.

 

Thus my big question: Is it just me? Is anyone else finding this?

 

It sounds like what you are seeing are the typical strike-through marks from lint and grease that plague this series (and most other moderns, for that matter). Because these are caused by an external factor other than the planchets and the dies, the degree to which it happens on a particular batch of coins will vary. Some coins might not have it at all. These marks do not represent post-minting damage and do not affect the grade...save for keeping an otherwise flawless coin out of MS70.

[BULLY]

 

 

In this case, of the 40 coins, maybe FIVE don't have SIGNIFICANT visible imperfections. I mean serious dings, nicks, contact marks in the field, sun, breast, letters, rim, etc -- and LOTS of them on each coin, like half a dozen or more, just on the obverse. Same on the reverse, on the eagle feathers, and so on.

 

Is it the coins? Is it NGC? (Not trying to blaspheme here, just shocked at what I am seeing). For comparison, I took three coins from 2007, also Silver American Eagles. These are in slabs from NGC simply graded "Gem Uncirculated" -- not even MS69. Those three coins are all almost visibly perfect to the naked eye - no serious imperfections like the bulk of the 2008 coins. One of those three has the slightest of marks, but nothing even like the MS69s of 2008, and it's just a generic "Gem Uncirculated" graded holder from NGC.

 

Thus my big question: Is it just me? Is anyone else finding this?

 

It sounds like what you are seeing are the typical strike-through marks from lint and grease that plague this series (and most other moderns, for that matter). Because these are caused by an external factor other than the planchets and the dies, the degree to which it happens on a particular batch of coins will vary. Some coins might not have it at all. These marks do not represent post-minting damage and do not affect the grade...save for keeping an otherwise flawless coin out of MS70.

 

Coinman: This is the best explanation I've had so far. Now, I am curious (and I open this to the floor), even if the grade says MS69, would a lot of these marks bother you if you were purchasing the coin?

 

I mean I believe the phrase "buy the coin, not the holder." So, when I encounter these coins, which appear to be so surprisingly different from other NGC MS69 Early Release Silver Eagles I've seen, I am not wowed. Their potential re-sale value also concerns me, if others might find the marks distracting or detrimental, or would you, in fact, simply go by the NGC grade?

[BULLY]

I received my Proof from the mint and as I didn't actually disect it, I put it under a 5x mag and it looks pretty nice to me.

 

 

My PROOF Silver Eagles look GORGEOUS to the eye as well. I received 15 of them from the Mint and submitted them to NGC in time for the "Early Release" grading. Not one of those looked bad, but even in 2007, of my 15 PROOF Silver Eagles, I think I got something like 12 PF70 Ultra Cameos, and 3 PF69 Ultra Cameos, so they (the proof versions) were high quality last year too.

 

This year, the difference seems to be in the quality of the uncirculated Silver Eagles, as described in my other posts.

 

[coinman1794]

 

 

In this case, of the 40 coins, maybe FIVE don't have SIGNIFICANT visible imperfections. I mean serious dings, nicks, contact marks in the field, sun, breast, letters, rim, etc -- and LOTS of them on each coin, like half a dozen or more, just on the obverse. Same on the reverse, on the eagle feathers, and so on.

 

Is it the coins? Is it NGC? (Not trying to blaspheme here, just shocked at what I am seeing). For comparison, I took three coins from 2007, also Silver American Eagles. These are in slabs from NGC simply graded "Gem Uncirculated" -- not even MS69. Those three coins are all almost visibly perfect to the naked eye - no serious imperfections like the bulk of the 2008 coins. One of those three has the slightest of marks, but nothing even like the MS69s of 2008, and it's just a generic "Gem Uncirculated" graded holder from NGC.

 

Thus my big question: Is it just me? Is anyone else finding this?

 

It sounds like what you are seeing are the typical strike-through marks from lint and grease that plague this series (and most other moderns, for that matter). Because these are caused by an external factor other than the planchets and the dies, the degree to which it happens on a particular batch of coins will vary. Some coins might not have it at all. These marks do not represent post-minting damage and do not affect the grade...save for keeping an otherwise flawless coin out of MS70.

 

Coinman: This is the best explanation I've had so far. Now, I am curious (and I open this to the floor), even if the grade says MS69, would a lot of these marks bother you if you were purchasing the coin?

 

I mean I believe the phrase "buy the coin, not the holder." So, when I encounter these coins, which appear to be so surprisingly different from other NGC MS69 Early Release Silver Eagles I've seen, I am not wowed. Their potential re-sale value also concerns me, if others might find the marks distracting or detrimental, or would you, in fact, simply go by the NGC grade?

 

 

I wouldn't personally want one with a lot of grease marks when I know I can find one without them. Collecting Silver Eagles that are truly choice for the grade can be a fun challenge.

[BULLY]

 

 

I wouldn't personally want one with a lot of grease marks when I know I can find one without them. Collecting Silver Eagles that are truly choice for the grade can be a fun challenge.

 

 

I'm in agreement with Coinman -- these don't wow me. I am looking for others elsewhere and hoping for better quality, before the 2/2/08 deadline for Early Releases, unless I get them already slabbed, which may be the case.

 

No other comments from the peanut gallery?

[Conder101]

Why on this earth would the Mint decide to change a few letters here and there, an upper case to a lower case, the style of the tilde? I mean, is it me, or is that just plain odd? Was someone NEW making the dies and wanted to inject his or her own personal style for posterity? ACK!

It's a lot more than changing a few letters here and there. The entire font has been changed for all of the lettering on both the front and back and there are considerable small changes in the designs as well (relief, spacing etc.). They obviously went back and created an entirely new model.

[BULLY]

It's a lot more than changing a few letters here and there. The entire font has been changed for all of the lettering on both the front and back and there are considerable small changes in the designs as well (relief, spacing etc.). They obviously went back and created an entirely new model.

 

 

And meanwhile, until I said it, many people, even collectors here, didn't even notice the difference and had to go look at their coins to compare them to last years' issue. The changes are rather subtle if you aren't looking for them.

 

In fact, was it not a grader at NGC who found the changes and announced the findings, rather than the Mint itself?

 

I'm still MORE curious about the poor quality of the uncirculated coins, even GRADED ones, and if I'm alone in my findings there.

 

 

[CHABSENTIA]

It looked nice to me without the magnification. As I mentioned earler the T.V. Coin shows have been making a big deal out of the design changes to try and justify their ridiculous prices.