Help with Sacagawea errors I just found in 2007 P Roll

[sro114-migration]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm new to the board and am hoping I can get some assistance. Hopefully this has not been discussed before, I searched for it and could not find anything.

 

I just opened up a 2007 P Sacagawea roll from the mint. Eleven of the coins have very pronounced strike thruoughs. At least I believe that is what it is. I have added a couple of photos for everyone's review. My photo quality is not that great, but you can clearly see the obverse. The reverse on these coins is about 1/2 to 3/4 as deeply marked as the obverse.

 

They are probably not worth much, but I was excited anyway because I've never found any abnormal coin in a roll.

 

What I would really like to know is what process causes this to happen.

 

Thanks

[cpm9ball]

Welcome to the neighborhood!

 

It's difficult to tell from your photos because they are a tad blurry, but I don't think a strikethrough caused it. Usually, a strikethrough doesn't affect more than one coin because the foreign debris between the dies and the planchet is most often embedded after the strike and would not affect subsequent coins. Also, it does not appear to have affected the raised areas such as the lettering or devices. This can be seen around "IN GOD WE TRUST" where the abnormality is both above and below, but not on any of the letters.

 

Are all of the coins exactly the same, or are there slight variations in the pattern and/or shape of the defect? This is just a guess, but it looks like it may have been due to defective planchet metal since you have multiple specimens exhibiting the same characteristics.

 

Try taking some more photos of several of the coins so that we can compare them. If you have a tripod, you should use it to eliminate much of the camera movement when you take the pictures.

 

Chris

[sro114-migration]

Chris,

 

Thank you for your reply. I tried a tripod and it did seem to help considerably. I have attached several photos for your review. I agree that it doesn't seem to have hit the devices. Please let me know what you think.

 

Shawn

[cpm9ball]

It could be die fatigue. Both obverse photos look the same, but the third reverse photo does not look at all like the first two. What does the obverse of the third one look like?

 

Chris

[Conder101]

Looks like there may some grease on the dies.

[sro114-migration]

Chris,

 

The third obverse looks the same. All of the obverses look the same, but there are differences like you see on the reverse. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't grease on the die show on the features. Maybe grease on the planchet?

 

These marks are kind of deep at the outer edges towards the rims. If that helps?

 

Thanks,

Shawn

[sro114-migration]

Chris and all:

 

I have found another difference on these coins, and that is that the coins in question are a reddish color on the rim. The normal ones are not. I took a couple of pictures of this, and they do show the difference, but it is more pronounced in person. The ? coin is on the right hand side and the one on the left is a 2007 Denver. Might be nothing.

 

I have to admit I'm having more fun looking at these buggers than I have had with my coins in quite a while.

 

I really appreciate you input.

[Just Bob]

Hi, sro114! No new info, just a to the boards!

[jgrinz]

Looks like someone at the mint did this

 

 

 

 

 

[bsshog40]

Those edge pics look like Dollar edges before the lettering.

[jimagoo]

want to sell 'em?

[physics-fan3.14]

Looks like there may have been some grease on the dies.

 

I concur.

 

I don't think a strikethrough caused it. Usually, a strikethrough doesn't affect more than one coin because the foreign debris between the dies and the planchet is most often embedded after the strike and would not affect subsequent coins.

Chris

 

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Sometimes the debris does get stuck on the new coin, and there are some spectacular errors where cloth or wire or something is actually embedded in the coin. However, with grease or oil, the debris very often does not stick to the planchet. It commonly gets squished around a bit, so that you can have a series of coins with strike throughs in roughly the same place but appear different. I have a series of Michigan state quarters that I found in a roll that are like this. It is a series of five quarters, much like this series of Sacs.

[cpm9ball]

Looks like there may have been some grease on the dies.

 

I concur.

 

I don't think a strikethrough caused it. Usually, a strikethrough doesn't affect more than one coin because the foreign debris between the dies and the planchet is most often embedded after the strike and would not affect subsequent coins.

Chris

 

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Sometimes the debris does get stuck on the new coin, and there are some spectacular errors where cloth or wire or something is actually embedded in the coin. However, with grease or oil, the debris very often does not stick to the planchet. It commonly gets squished around a bit, so that you can have a series of coins with strike throughs in roughly the same place but appear different. I have a series of Michigan state quarters that I found in a roll that are like this. It is a series of five quarters, much like this series of Sacs.

 

I didn't say that you could disagree with me! The nerve of some people! If you reread my first post, you will note that I said, "Usually, a strikethrough doesn't affect......" I didn't say "never". I agree that grease and debris could be responsible for a strikethrough, but I don't think so in this case because the strike on both coins is exactly the same.

 

Chris

[sro114-migration]

I have found a couple of similar errors on Ebay on presidential dollar coins. Here is a link to one of those.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160197920472&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=006

 

He calls it a starburst error. But it looks like his variation covers the devices as well and my sacs do not. Do you think these sacs are on presidential plantchets? Or maybe it's just a case of shoddy material all around.

 

Thanks again for the replies.

[cpm9ball]

I have found a couple of similar errors on Ebay on presidential dollar coins. Here is a link to one of those.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160197920472&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=006

 

He calls it a starburst error. But it looks like his variation covers the devices as well and my sacs do not. Do you think these sacs are on presidential plantchets? Or maybe it's just a case of shoddy material all around.

 

Thanks again for the replies.

 

No, the Sac dollars are not on Prez planchets. The Prez dollars are on Sac planchets. The same planchets are used for both.

 

Chris

[sro114-migration]

Well there goes my millions!!

 

I've sent these photos into to NGC and will let everyone know what they say when I hear back from them.

 

 

[CHABSENTIA]

I just read an article in Coin World a few days ago.It seems that there are Sacs with the Presidential Edge lettering on them. Some guy has already collected a $10,000.00 reward that PCGS offered for the first example of them.

 

I htink he said that he found it is a roll of Adams Dollars.

[CHABSENTIA]

That is lettering on the rim of the Sacs like the Prez.

[sro114-migration]

Well, I just received an email back from NGC stating that it would not qualify as an error because it is not significant enough. I disagree, but I'm not the one encapsulating!!