Information from NGC regarding counterfeit holders

[MarkFeld]

Thanks to NGC for posting the following on the home page of their website: Link

 

 

[MunkyMan95]

I think this is a mistake. Though it gets the awareness out, the countefeiters now know what to change on their next batch of slabs.

 

That is, unless NGC plans to implement another countermeasure in the near future.

[harvey8542]

I feel it is very helpfull and as far as them knowing what to fix they are bound to figure it out any way. So why not help out the people getting scamed by showing them what to look for. Great link Mark and Thank You NGC

[TomB]

I look forward to the next generation holder.

[DC Dawg]

In one of my past lives I worked on a supply chain management project and learned about bar codes. When the bar codes are placed side by side, there are differences. Does anyone know what encoding NGC uses for the serial numbers?

 

Scott

[MarkFeld]

I think this is a mistake. Though it gets the awareness out, the countefeiters now know what to change on their next batch of slabs.

 

That is, unless NGC plans to implement another countermeasure in the near future.

It would be wonderful if NGC could get the word out to everyone except for the bad guys. That is impossible, however, and I believe that this is far better than the alternative of keeping quiet. I also believe that the more publicity this issue receives, the greater the deterrence to counterfeiters.

[michael]

It would be wonderful if NGC could get the word out to everyone except for the bad guys. That is impossible, however, and I believe that this is far better than the alternative of keeping quiet. I also believe that the more publicity this issue receives, the greater the deterrence to counterfeiters.

 

(thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u

 

 

 

[jesbroken]

I see Chad's point, while also believing something is better than nothing. I still feel that offering photographic evidence of the slabbed coin to the public would place a curtailment to the crooks process they could not overcome very easily. Even though it would be quite expensive to begin with, it would be an immediate effect on the sales of counterfeit coins in counterfeit holders.

[bsshog40]

I agree with you Mark. Thanks for the link.I like how they did the downloadable PDF for thier article also.

[braddick]

I look forward to the next generation holder.

 

 

:)

[MikeInFL]

EXCELLENT! I am very pleased with this announcement. IMO, NGC continues to set itself apart from its main competitor with actions such as this. Bravo NGC!!!

[Revenant]

I personally think that NGC and PCGS are about equal in grading, but NGC is rapidly making PCGS look like a joke as a company.

[Revenant]

Also, I thought the spelling mistakes on the hologram were interesting, but unlike the label errors and the edge appearance most of the details they referred to are much too small to see in your average ebay slab photo.

[pendragon1998]

Thoughtful of NGC to provide the scam artists feedback on how to improve their work.

 

My guess is that there are more counterfeits out there that are more accurate and people haven't noticed the difference.

 

 

What they ought to be doing is taking photos of every slab over, say, $100 or $200 declared value and including them in the serial number lookup results.

[chinook]

Good job NGC!!!

[MarkFeld]

Thoughtful of NGC to provide the scam artists feedback on how to improve their work.

 

My guess is that there are more counterfeits out there that are more accurate and people haven't noticed the difference.

 

 

What they ought to be doing is taking photos of every slab over, say, $100 or $200 declared value and including them in the serial number lookup results.

Even if they were to take images of such coins beginning this very instant, that wouldn't do any good for the huge quantities of coins that have already been graded and encapsulated. And since legitimate serial numbers have been copied as well, looking those up wouldn't necessarily do any good.

[IGWT]

I'm certain that NGC has considered the costs and benefits of sharing the tells that give the counterfeits away, and wisely determined (based in part on information currently unavailable to us) that providing the information is more protective than keeping it quiet.

[Just Bob]

I'm glad to see them taking positive action to protect collectors. The counterfeiting of slabs is a scary situation, and will require extreme vigilance on everyone's part. Well done, NGC!

[stinkycheese1]

Once again, NGC has spoken and stood out to be one of the leaders in third party certification.

[DC Dawg]

I'm certain that NGC has considered the costs and benefits of sharing the tells that give the counterfeits away, and wisely deteremined (based in part on information currently unavailable to us) that providing the information is more protective than keeping it quiet.

This is a very real issue and one those of us in the information security world face almost daily. We refer to the situation as "open disclosure." Essentially, should those who find bugs, issues, or other risks make those public or should they be kept quiet and maybe allowed to be fixed quietly.

 

There are some that say open disclosure will give the hackers ideas or open the doors to the evil doers. Others will say by knowing the risks, I can try to mitigate the risks while the vendor figures out how to fix the problem. On the other hand, by not publicizing the risk, the vendor can fix the problem before systems and software is compromised. However, there are vendors who just put their head in the sand and either do nothing or act slowly. They are considered practicing a model called "security by obscurity" suggesting what you do not know does not hurt.

 

As a commercial organization, I am sure that NGC and its attorneys have examined the risks of responding versus not responding. Then, if they respond, how much of a response should they make? What should be disclosed? What is in the best interest of their customers while maintaining the integrity of the company?

 

NGC did not respond immediately--but we did not have to wait long. It was measured, informative, and shows that they are concerned about the integrity of their service and their clients. The announcement that they will introduce a new slab with new anti-counterfeiting mechanisms adds to their credibility. As IGWT said, it was a wise move in the light of open disclosure.

 

Scott

[James_OldeTowne]

Information is the best defense against scammers, now and always. NGC is doing the right thing.

[just-john]

Good information to know but when the dike starts to leak you know a flood coming soon.

The B.O.E. can't seem to stop country sponsored counterfeiting with their resources hope their's a way to make it not worth their time .Keep in mind in China if your I in A million there's almost 1300 just like you and 20 million more each year .The math hard to beat

[physics-fan3.14]

Despite what some have said, I am happy NGC has posted this guide. While we can't all be experts like Conder, a guide like this helps people like me avoid the problems. Granted, this is just one example of a counterfeit holder and there are many more I sure. But it is still a start. The one sentence that I found most pleasing in this anouncement is below.

 

The next generation NGC holder to be released in 2008 has incorporated many new anti-counterfeiting features.

 

Good job NGC, and thanks for listening and helping to protect us. I don't want to sound like a Kool-Aid drinker, but this is a great and necessary step.

[michael]

Information is the best defense against scammers, now and always. NGC is doing the right thing.

 

(thumbs u (thumbs u

 

coin information too

[Bruceswar]

Man there is some heavy Kool Aide Flowing. Please let me raise my pants before the room fills up. Anyhow, NGC needs to warn collectors as much as possible. We sometimes forget that less than 5% of the coin market reads these forums. The other 95% should have as much warning as possible.

[Conder101]

You want Kool-Aid, I've read comments elsewhere from people who say that they don't have to worry about the problem because they only buy PCGS slabbed coins. I guess they believe no one from China would dare to counterfeit a slab from the mighty PCGS less Zeus, err David Hall, cast thunderbolts at them. Now THAT's Kool-Aid.

[RareSov]

If this new fancy holder is good, I'll have a heap reholdered.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Maybe placing a laser scanable encoded microdot inside the slab may be the answer. This may be a technology that can not be easily faked which could stop these thieves. I would be willing to buy an inexpensive laser scanner to protect my investment. The microdot scanner could even just verify the slab serial number. The technology required to produce the encoded microdots would exclude most forgers in China at least.

[Coin]

I'm relieved to know NGC is on target dealing with counterfeiters , as much as emulation is a grand gesture , misrepresentation is intolerable .

 

What I am really excited about hearing , is that a new improved slab with improved anti-scam features, is in the works.............what would really be great would be if NGC could take this time to also make the coin insert more photographic-friendly in the process as well .

 

[carson city]

Many deterents to counterfeit coin holders were discussed at FUN show including special plastic that emits a specific color when exposed to black light. David Hall indicated, it's a never ending battle !