Are AU58's Overall Better Coins than MS60-62's?

[jackson64]

Some opinions from those who buy the coin and not just the slab grade---are AU58's a better buy and actually nicer coins than MS60, 61's and 62's?

 

For me a little rub is worth the trade off to have nice luster and minimum contact marks--especially if the strike is good...

[MunkyMan95]

MS60's and 61's are most of the time dogs by today's standards. AU58's with the slightest amount of rub are often superioir to their low MS counterparts.

[okbustchaser]

At least in the series I collect most slabbed MS 61-62s (and many 63's) ARE AU-58s. Most slabs with lables that say AU 58 aren't.

 

 

[Zoins]

In the old days AU58s were often considered nicer than MS60-62. This was back when everyone was using technical grading, however market grading has taken over and that is no longer the case. As okbustchaser mentions, many technically graded 58s have not been market graded 60-63. Many coins in 58 holders today are not what used to be a 58.

 

So while your observation may have been correct at one time, the market has adjusted so it may no longer be the case.

[coinman1794]

Zoins, you said exactly what I was going to say when I saw this post. I have seen this mostly on Bust halves, and it has always been a problem, but just recently it has mushroomed. I think this also explains why true AU58 Bust halves are so expensive right now- everyone knows they can get a 60-63 if resubmited. Conversely, the AU58s comming out now are more like AU55s.

 

I have not seen this shift on XF45 through AU53 however.

[BillJones]

MS-61 and 62 coins are usually AU-58s. The grading services rarely assign the MS-60, and when they do the coin is usually pretty ugly. In the old days finding a real AU-58 in a 58 holder was wonderful. Usually you paid MS-60 money or slightly discounted MS-60 money for it, which was fine by me. Today some AU-58 graded coins are no more than AU-55s and the AU-50s are no better than EF sometimes no better than EF-40 IMO.

 

Botton line: For the early coins that I really enjoy, I'll pay MS-60 money for a REAL AU-58 provided, of course, that the coin has decent eye appeal.

[WinstonWare]

...VF coins are the best (thumbs u

[rexcat]

Zoins, you said exactly what I was going to say when I saw this post. I have seen this mostly on Bust halves, and it has always been a problem, but just recently it has mushroomed. I think this also explains why true AU58 Bust halves are so expensive right now- everyone knows they can get a 60-63 if resubmited. Conversely, the AU58s comming out now are more like AU55s.

 

I have not seen this shift on XF45 through AU53 however.

 

I'm trying to get a bust half for my type set and have seen this happening too.

 

[michael]

MS-61 and 62 coins are usually AU-58s. The grading services rarely assign the MS-60, and when they do the coin is usually pretty ugly. In the old days finding a real AU-58 in a 58 holder was wonderful. Usually you paid MS-60 money or slightly discounted MS-60 money for it, which was fine by me. Today some AU-58 graded coins are no more than AU-55s and the AU-50s are no better than EF sometimes no better than EF-40 IMO.

 

Botton line: For the early coins that I really enjoy, I'll pay MS-60 money for a REAL AU-58 provided, of course, that the coin has decent eye appeal.

 

(thumbs u

 

also i think it all depends on the coin but usually ms 61 coins are fancy true au58 coins and what is certified today as au58 are only lower end au

 

again it all depends on the series and specific coin within the series you happen to be evaulating

 

a true au58 is worth as much if not more than an ugly ms61 hands down

[Tradedollarnut]

Define 'better'.

 

Some probably are, some probably aren't.

[PovertyRow]

Serious quesiton - a little confusing the way many of the posts have been phrased.

 

Those who speak of the AU58's from the "old days" - assuming such coins are no longer being graded AU58 today (for the most part) - then what grade (or range) would they be assigned nowadays?

[jackson64]

I mean "better" concerning coins graded according to the ANA standards...

 

MS60--obvious blemishes, lacking mint luster, surface may be dull and spotted, but no trace of wear

 

AU58-only small signs of abrasion, almost all mint luster is present (from an AU58 description it sounds like a gem65 that was put into a slide album...)

[Elbesaar]

 

AU 58 has always been my grade of choice.

 

Most of them are considerably nicer than any MS 60 - 62

 

Many years ago, they were called "Sliders" - a term misused today -

as coins were kept in trays, loose, and everytime a dealer pulled out a tray of coins

to show a collector, they would slide slightly and eventually a touch of rub would develop.

 

Compare this AU 58 [ albeit a bit toned ] with the MS next to it.

Both of these coins are in my collection and were purchased together

which is the only reason it has the two coins in the same image:

 

[PerryHall]

I've always liked AU58 for better date gold since in many cases it represents good value. I've always tried to buy the highest grade before the big price jump to the next higher grade and frequently AU58 represents this grade..

[coinman1794]

Serious quesiton - a little confusing the way many of the posts have been phrased.

 

Those who speak of the AU58's from the "old days" - assuming such coins are no longer being graded AU58 today (for the most part) - then what grade (or range) would they be assigned nowadays?

 

Speaking from my extensive experience (trials and tribulations) with Bust half grading standards, they are being graded MS61 through MS63, for the most part. There used to be a distinction made (whether practical or not) between cabinet friction and light rub; and cabinet friction coins would grade Mint State, while those with true rub would grade AU58. Now both are being called MS61-63 with regularity, as if there is no longer any attempt at distinguishing between the two. The coins that are comming in as AU58 today would be AU55 in the past, because lesser quality coins are now filling that vacuum, generally speaking. However, they have tightened up on XF45 through AU53, and it's very hard to get AU55 for me lately.

[BULLY]

This is part of why OLDER holders (which are generally easily identified by sight or serial number in the case of PCGS or NGC) seem to be commanding a premium for some coins, like certain Morgans for instance -- because people (we, collectors) suspect we can re-submit them and have them grade UP, hopefully significantly so.

 

 

[pendragon1998]

Below is an example of what I'd call a MS coin with slight rub breaking the luster being (correctly) called an AU-58. I believe that a correctly graded AU58 is usually more attractive than a MS60-62. For the record, I think that this particular AU58 does have more eye-appeal than a MS60-62 - more than most 64s I've personally seen - and you can't beat the $20 price tag. Now if only the date was 1943 instead of 1934!!! I want a 1943 for my collection that looks exactly like this coin!

 

You know, I think it would have made more sense for the AU grades to be representative of their MS counterparts (i.e., if a coin graded MS-6X, then if it got rubbed and lost luster in a spot, it would then grade AU-5X). Any wear into the actual design elements would then drop it into XF.

 

 

[michael]

Re: Are AU58's Overall Better Coins than MS60-62's?

 

some yes some no

 

here is a photo of a real au-58 that is actually an au-63 with slight lustre disturbance

 

[BillJones]

Just as Michael says, sometimes AU-58s are better than some MS-61 or 62s; sometimes they aren't. This Gobrecht Dollar is in a PCGS PR-62 with a CAC sticker. It is a hairsbreadth from PR-63. You won't find a properly graded AU-58 that could be better than this coin.

 

[CHABSENTIA]

I have a coin in the Latest Coin Forum. The coin was in an NGC Holder as a

1878 Morgan Dollar 7 TF Rev of 79 AU58. I knew it was a VAM but not sure which one. I had hoped it was a 229.

 

The Breast Feathers on the Eagle are pretty full and looked as good as 61 &62 Morgans and maybe a little better.

 

I sent it in to ANACS and it came back yesterday as an 1878 Rev of 79 and a VAM of 222. ANACS also graded it as a AU58.

[MikeKing]

Serious quesiton - a little confusing the way many of the posts have been phrased.

 

Those who speak of the AU58's from the "old days" - assuming such coins are no longer being graded AU58 today (for the most part) - then what grade (or range) would they be assigned nowadays?

 

most likely AU55 or AU58

But nowadays, with the tightening that's going on, I wouldn't be surprised to see more 62's ending up in 58 holders either. Of course, I'm talking about Bust Halves, because that's all I'm really familiar with.

 

but really, AU55/58-AU62 is really a blur with Bust half material, at least, I think so, because some 55's are 58's and some 62's are 58's and some 58's are 62.

 

 

[michael]

i agree with mikeking's reply directly above

[EZ_E]

This beautiful type Bust is NGC AU58. I see no wear at all on the obverse but it is very obvious on the eagle. I'd much prefer this coin to a mint state example because it was a very good value at this grade and the coin rocks on the eye-appeal charts, IMO.

[stinkycheese1]

I'd say so. I have 2 beautiful PCGS AU58 coins. The Indian I actually bought as AU55 raw. It's a great coin. Also i bought a 1900 victorian sovereign from dooly here, the great english man. Great coin.

 

 

Victoria head, same coin before it was slabbed by PCGS

 

[saen78]

Great Looking Bustie Victor! (thumbs u

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jtryka]

I think it really depends on the series involved. In Saints, there is often only a slight rub that separates a 58 from a 62, but even there it's dicey (on the key dates there is a much more defined difference). What it comes down to is where there is a break point in market value. For a 1924 Saint, the difference between a 58 and 62 is practically nil, as both sell for slight premiums over melt. On a 24-S, there is a much bigger difference in price between those grades, and consequently a much different appearance in the coins of those two grades. I have been putting more attention on my Type 2 double eagles lately, and the same is true for most of that series. The common dates are readily available in grades up to AU-58, with very little premium over melt, but get a 62, and suddenly the price on even common dates nearly doubles. The thing I like about it though is that despite the price spike, the difference in those grades is often much less pronounced than the key dates on other series. And as for the elusive MS-60 grade, they are out there, in fact, I have two Liberty double eagles in MS-60, an 1876-S and 1889, but I have not a single Saint in that grade!