Do we really have a clue regarding why a coin didn't grade such and such?

[MarkFeld]

Frequently I see (and admittedly make) comments which seek to explain why a given coin was assigned such and such grade, as opposed to a lower or higher grade. For example "This coin would have graded a point higher if it had better luster". Or "The weak strike kept this coin at the 65 level; otherwise it would have graded 66".

 

But let's face it folks - we're guessing, and each of us guess based upon our own knowledge AND biases. Sometimes our guesses are probably correct and other times they might be laughable. Do you ever wonder if the reasons you grade a coin a particular grade even enter the minds of the graders when they are making their decision?

[DirtyGoldMan]

If our coin does not make the grade, obviously the graders saw something untoward that we did not or simply judged the coin differently. With the coin in hand, it is impossible to know what this is, let alone by an image.

 

Why did NGC grade this coin MS-62?

 

 

Beats me, but I am glad they did!

[bsshog40]

I don't think that our reasons would enter thier minds but I do think that they have the experience to take into consideration all the reasons that a coin is graded what it is. I've seen alot of graded coins posted thru this forum and alot of reasons given why this coin didn't grade this and that coin graded that because. When coins get posted here for grade, if you were to read every response, most people have a tendency to look for certain things in a coin. There may be a couple that always tend to mention luster, and a couple others that mention strike, and others eye appeal. I think we all have our first impression taken of a coin by what our first priority is of what a coin should have or look like. I think this is where dissappointment comes sometimes with a lower grade of a coin than what was expected. We look at what our priority of a coin should like and may have over-looked something else. JMO

[bsshog40]

If our coin does not make the grade, obviously the graders saw something untoward that we did not or simply judged the coin differently. With the coin in hand, it is impossible to know what this is, let alone by an image.

 

Why did NGC grade this coin MS-62?

 

 

Beats me, but I am glad they did!

 

My impressions would be to rim nics and a nice scratch on the rev. Other than that, I would have guessed at least MS65 by my knowledge.

[IGWT]

Grading is like fluency in a foreign language. You're not fluent if you have to think about the language itself in addition to the thought that you want to express. Likewise, you're not a truly good grader -- a fluent grader -- if you have to think about grading while assigning a grade that properly expresses the condition of the coin.

[bsshog40]

I know my weakest links for grading. I'm bad with anything MS67 and up. Ans also Modern Proofs. I get lost in the 67-70 range for anything!

[MorganMan]

Gold is one that stumps me everytime.

 

I just got back some gold from NGC. I had a $5 indian that looked MS63 to me and came back "obverse cleaned". I still do not see it. I had another that I did suspect would BB and it did. A third one that I figured MS62 came back AU58.

 

Then there is the $20 St gaudens that I saw a little rub on I figured would go AU58.

It came back slabbed MS63.

 

 

MM

[Oldtrader3]

The 1907 eagle has a large planchet flaw below the chin and what looks like rub on the cheek. The reverse has a weak strike and (2) fairly large dings. It still is a nice looking eagle though because they usually are beat up.

[PerryHall]

The 1907 eagle has a large planchet flaw below the chin

 

That planchet flaw under the chin is probably just a shiney area from the die. I've seen this on several other 1907 Indian eagles and it's not a defect.

[MikeInFL]

Frequently I see (and admittedly make) comments which seek to explain why a given coin was assigned such and such grade, as opposed to a lower or higher grade. For example "This coin would have graded a point higher if it had better luster". Or "The weak strike kept this coin at the 65 level; otherwise it would have graded 66".

 

But let's face it folks - we're guessing, and each of us guess based upon our own knowledge AND biases. Sometimes our guesses are probably correct and other times they might be laughable. Do you ever wonder if the reasons you grade a coin a particular grade even enter the minds of the graders when they are making their decision?

 

In the end, I'm not sure that we really do have a clue as to what was in the grader's mind. We can only guess...

 

But as a grade is an opinion, and we are all entitled to our opinion, how is the 20 second opinion offered by a TPG any better or worse than that given my someone who has spent hours or days looking at a coin?

 

They're both opinions after all...

[BillJones]

If our coin does not make the grade, obviously the graders saw something untoward that we did not or simply judged the coin differently. With the coin in hand, it is impossible to know what this is, let alone by an image.

 

Why did NGC grade this coin MS-62?

 

 

Beats me, but I am glad they did!

 

I've seen a number of these 1907 No Periods $10 Indians that are under graded. I've got an MS-61 piece in my collection that is better than most of the MS-63 graded pieces I see of the "with motto" type.

 

I think the problem is with the strike. The dies were naturally weak in the center of the obverse with very little detail showing. For that reason I think that the graders, who have to process so many coins an hour or lose their jobs, get tough on this issue.

 

As for the graders, I don't view them as the grand experts that so many of you do. I've seen WAY TOO MANY mistakes in plastic going in both directions. These guys, even if they are all that good, don't have the time to render the quality flawless opinions that you think they consistently render. If they are PO'd or have a bad day, it will reflect in their work, just as it is with every other human labor.

 

BTW here's the example of this issue that I own that is in an MS-61 holder.

 

[kryptonitecomics]

No it never enters my mind frankly.......while I consider myself a pretty good grader ...I realize grading is subjective. I trust that the folks at the top TPGs have seen and graded a lot more coins than I have so I know that each company/grader has their own criteria of what a coin has to have to make a certain grade. A lot of the coins I own and submit could go either way as far as grade depending on the day of the week and grader. I pay what I feel is a fair price for the coins I own and I don't play the crackout or upgrade game so I am not typically concerned if I agree or disagree with the assigned grade....I just enjoy the coin as is. (thumbs u

[MorganMan]

If our coin does not make the grade, obviously the graders saw something untoward that we did not or simply judged the coin differently. With the coin in hand, it is impossible to know what this is, let alone by an image.

 

Why did NGC grade this coin MS-62?

 

 

Beats me, but I am glad they did!

 

For reference, here is an NGC MS63

 

 

MM

[James_OldeTowne]

Frequently I see (and admittedly make) comments which seek to explain why a given coin was assigned such and such grade, as opposed to a lower or higher grade. For example "This coin would have graded a point higher if it had better luster". Or "The weak strike kept this coin at the 65 level; otherwise it would have graded 66".

 

But let's face it folks - we're guessing, and each of us guess based upon our own knowledge AND biases. Sometimes our guesses are probably correct and other times they might be laughable. Do you ever wonder if the reasons you grade a coin a particular grade even enter the minds of the graders when they are making their decision?

 

I am doing a lot of this right now as I catalog 1200 + coins. I'm frequently injecting my opinion as to why something was graded as it was.

 

One of the wonderful aspects of collecting coins is that they aren't commodities, and so such speculation and subjectivity is a natural and enjoyable part of the hobby.

[PerryHall]

Many slabbed coins that appear to be undergraded really aren't. If you examine them under a bright light and tilt and rotate them you will see hairlines that may only be visible at a certain angle. Professional graders take these hairlines into consideration. While a coin may be free of bagmarks and have nice luster, the presence of hairlines will limit the grade. From what I've heard, graders hate hairlines even if they aren't readily visible under normal room lighting.

[MarkFeld]

Many slabbed coins that appear to be undergraded really aren't. If you examine them under a bright light and tilt and rotate them you will see hairlines that may only be visible at a certain angle. Professional graders take these hairlines into consideration. While a coin may be free of bagmarks and have nice luster, the presence of hairlines will limit the grade. From what I've heard, graders hate hairlines even if they aren't readily visible under normal room lighting.

Ditto for light cleaning that an expert can detect almost immediately, while many non-experts can't see, even after prolonged examination of the coin.