Hypothetical: Receipt of coin with "correctable" problem that the dealer missed

[IGWT]

Let's say that you find a coin that you've long desired in the inventory of a well-known, reputable dealer. You e-mail a message and follow-up with a phone call about the coin. A price is negotiated, and the dealer requests payment before shipping the coin, because this transaction is your first. You send a check, confirm with the seller that the funds have cleared, and wait eagerly for the coin.

 

When the coin arrives, you open the package with high expectations, and the coin looks great at first glance. But, lo and behold, closer study shows that the coin is infected with a pretty bad case of active verdigris, PVC slime, or some such problem that likely can be "fixed" with proper conservation. Ugh! You call the dealer and send a close-up photo to help describe the problem. The dealer expresses embarrassment and admits that he should have caught the problem.

 

The dealer suggests two options to deal with the problem. Option one: He suggests that you send the coin to NCS for conservation. He'll cover the cost of the work (including shipment) and extend the return privilege for as long as it takes. Option two: Return the coin. He'll send the coin to NCS himself and offer it to you again after the work is done. But he will not promise to hold the price originally negotiated.

 

What do you think of this situation and the options presented? What, if anything, do they tell you about this dealer? What option would you choose and why?

[bsshog40]

Well first of all, I feel that first impressions are the most important. This was a first time purchase and the dealer sent you a coin hoping you wouldn't notice the issue and got his money. That's my first thought. Second, when the dealer is confronted with the issue, I give a little respect for him owning up to it. Third comes the issue of what to do with the coin. With some type of contamination, conservation is going to take something away from that coin. Thus, leaving a totally different coin than was purchased in the first place. I would let the dealer send the coin to NCS, see the results of the coin, and then decide if I would still want the coin and what I would pay for it.

[MikeInFL]

The dealer suggests two options to deal with the problem. Option one: He suggests that you send the coin to NCS for conservation. He'll cover the cost of the work (including shipment) and extend the return privilege for as long as it takes. Option two: Return the coin. He'll send the coin to NCS himself and offer it to you again after the work is done. But he will not promise to hold the price originally negotiated.

 

What do you think of this situation and the options presented? What, if anything, do they tell you about this dealer? What option would you choose and why?

 

Depends on the coin and the problem, really.

 

For instance, if the coin is a modern and the problem is PVC, and a quick dip in acetone could solve the problem then no real "conservation" has taken place. I'd be OK with it in this instance.

 

A second example is a hazed proof. The coin can be dipped and still look quite nice, but I would likely not accept the dipped coin.

 

A third example is a piece of old copper with active verdegris. While the verdegris can be removed, chances are the surfaces underneath will be effected. I would likely not accept this coin, particularly if it was evident to the naked eye. But I could go either way.

 

As for your second question, I would think less of the dealer. He should have caught that problem, and if it were obvious he probably did but hoped to find a new home for it. I would likely not deal with him again -- I want to work with dealers who are looking out for my best interest, not looking to find a home for a problem coin.

 

On your third question, again it depends on the coin, but with the type of coins I'm collecting recently, I would return the coin and tell him to send me a refund and that I was not interested in a conserved coin.

 

Then again, that's just me. Although it is tough to talk in generalities on this issue, it is also worth noting that my opinon on this topic has changed over time, and I can respect and relate to opinions different from my own....Mike

[IGWT]

Assume that it's a scarce coin that comes to market once every 3-4 years.

[MikeInFL]

Again, depends on the problem. But if it were as rare as you suggest, I would likely be more accepting of problems and conservation.

[Arizonadesertrat]

I would take option 2. If the issue is just PVC slime removal, and the result looks satisfactory (i.e., no acid pitting) then maybe buy the coin if the dealer doesn't jack the price up too much. If the issue is verdigris that was missed, I would pass on the coin.

[IGWT]

Again, depends on the problem. But if it were as rare as you suggest, I would likely be more accepting of problems and conservation.

Both options involved conservation.

[bsshog40]

Assume that it's a scarce coin that comes to market once every 3-4 years.

 

I still don't think this would change my original answer. If I'm waiting that long for a coin to come to market, It's gotta be good!!

[MarkFeld]

I'd definitely avoid option #1. Too many things could go wrong and you don't want to be the one who owns the coin in the event that there's a problem.

 

Edited to add: Whoops, I missed the part that said the return privilege would be extended. That, plus the fact that the dealer was described as "reputable" might cause me to be fine with option #1, after all. That, of course would still be dependent upon whether YOU would be OK with the conserved coin.

[michael]

What do you think of this situation and the options presented?

 

excellent and well presented and also from my experiences and the experiences of others i know this is a common occurance .............................. superb example!!

 

What, if anything, do they tell you about this dealer? he is either a liar,crook, gonoff and/or at best case scenrio----insufficiently_thoughtful_person brainless insufficiently_thoughtful_person unprofessional and someone i cant do business with unless i can see the coin in hand sight seen basis ONLY before i make a decision

 

What option would you choose and why? i would choose option two and return the coin for a full refund but with the added measure i never want to be offered the coin again no matter waht the ncs outcome i just want my money refunded immediately if not sooner!! as the dealer is at the very best case unprofessional and insufficiently_thoughtful_person AND if i ever want to deal with him again it has to be on a sight seen basis ONLY

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Let's say that you find a coin that you've long desired in the inventory of a well-known, reputable dealer. You e-mail a message and follow-up with a phone call about the coin. A price is negotiated, and the dealer requests payment before shipping the coin, because this transaction is your first. You send a check, confirm with the seller that the funds have cleared, and wait eagerly for the coin.

 

When the coin arrives, you open the package with high expectations, and the coin looks great at first glance. But, lo and behold, closer study shows that the coin is infected with a pretty bad case of active verdigris, PVC slime, or some such problem that likely can be "fixed" with proper conservation. Ugh! You call the dealer and send a close-up photo to help describe the problem. The dealer expresses embarrassment and admits that he should have caught the problem.

 

The dealer suggests two options to deal with the problem. Option one: He suggests that you send the coin to NCS for conservation. He'll cover the cost of the work (including shipment) and extend the return privilege for as long as it takes. Option two: Return the coin. He'll send the coin to NCS himself and offer it to you again after the work is done. But he will not promise to hold the price originally negotiated.

 

What do you think of this situation and the options presented? What, if anything, do they tell you about this dealer? What option would you choose and why?

 

First, I must say that this dealer sounds honorable and deserves your support. And I see nothing wrong with option two, whereby he is covering his "assets", so to speak.

 

From the standpoint of which fork in the road to take, my suggestion is to take option #1.

 

Good luck either way!

[IGWT]

Good luck either way!

It's a hypothetical! Or, if it did happen, I'm sure that it happened so long ago that it might as well be a hypothetical. I would take door number two. Here's why:

 

Even though the first option included an extended return privilege -- an opportunity to undo the sale -- the sale has been consummated, and I would be the owner of the coin with all the rights and responsibilities that come with it. But I wouldn't want those responsibilities unless I want the coin, and I certainly wouldn't want it as is. I don't send my money to a dealer for the privilege of sending coins to NCS (which, by the way, I've never done). And what would happen if the coin were to be stolen or get lost in the mail, making a return impossible? I simply do not want to own the coin or to bear the risks of ownership (even if there's insurance) during the period when it's unknown whether or not I'll keep it.

 

I don't think we can conclude that the dealer was trying to pull a fast one. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt; but, this situation -- if it were to occur -- would certainly confirm that the collector stands alone at the end of the day. I think that the dealer should take the coin back, retain ownership during the conservation, and offer the coin again at a price no higher than initially negotiated. I would suspect that the dealer's refusal to hold the price under option two is merely a way to apply pressure to take option one (and shows that the dealer knows the psychology of sales, but that he doesn't know me).

[bsshog40]

 

I don't think we can conclude that the dealer was trying to pull a fast one. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt; but, this situation -- if it were to occur -- would certainly confirm that the collector stands alone at the end of the day. I think that the dealer should take the coin back, retain ownership during the conservation, and offer the coin again at a price no higher than initially negotiated. I would suspect that the dealer's refusal to hold the price under option two is merely a way to apply pressure to take option one (and shows that the dealer knows the psychology of sales, but that he doesn't know me).

I agree with you here on most of this. I think with the dealer wording that the coin may be higher priced if it comes back conserved, indicates to me a pressue to the buyer. This also looks to me that the dealer started off with bad intent, because now he's telling you that you need to remain obligated to the purchase or else. This is where IO would have told the dealer to put the coin, you know where!!

[Houston Investor]

1st - The guy seems to be trying to stick you with a bad coin.

 

2nd - You screwed up buying this coin sight unseen.

 

3rd - While I would take door #2 if forced to make a choice between the two options, I frankly would just want to return the coin and get my money back. Once I got my money back I would breathe a sigh of relief and take my business somewhere else and make sure in the future I bought sight seen. This is why if your are going to buy expensive coins, its worth it to pay the airfare and go to that major show.

[IGWT]

1st - The guy seems to be trying to stick you with a bad coin.

 

2nd - You screwed up buying this coin sight unseen.

 

3rd - While I would take door #2 if forced to make a choice between the two options, I frankly would just want to return the coin and get my money back. Once I got my money back I would breathe a sigh of relief and take my business somewhere else and make sure in the future I bought sight seen. This is why if your are going to buy expensive coins, its worth it to pay the airfare and go to that major show.

Hypothetically speaking, this case is one where I managed not to screw up. A transaction with an unconditional return privilege is sight-seen, not sight-unseen. If the purchase were sight-unseen, I would not have the option of sending the coin back. I'm kind of surprised that a dealer of your caliber doesn't know that (or maybe you didn't read the OP closely enough).

[TomB]

It seems pretty straightforward-return the coin for refund.

[coinman1794]

Good luck either way!

I think that the dealer should take the coin back, retain ownership during the conservation, and offer the coin again at a price no higher than initially negotiated. I would suspect that the dealer's refusal to hold the price under option two is merely a way to apply pressure to take option one (and shows that the dealer knows the psychology of sales, but that he doesn't know me).

 

If a dealer takes the coin back, retains ownership, and pays money to have the coin conserved, why should he be obligated to sell it at the same price? It might cost $30+50 for the conservation. It would be nice if the dealer had the room to do that, but it can't always be done. It doesn't have to have anything at all to do with pressure, in my opinion. I've had cased where a certified coin "turned" in the holder and I offered to take the coin back, have it conserved free of charge as per NGCs guarrantee, and resell it to the person at the same price. That is a practical solution, but not if you had to pay a ton of money for it.