1921 Morgan NGC Fair-02 ***SOLD***

[truthteller]

1921 Morgan $1 NGC Fair-02 $200 shipping included.

 

Recently graded.

 

Honest wear. No dings or cuts. Uniform wear with medium grey patina. The reverse appears to be more of a Poor-1. This is the only one graded in the NGC Pr-AG Census for the date.

 

Check or Postal money order. Express Mail overnight for $5 more.

 

 

TRUTH

[Jeff S]

May I ask why this coin is worth 200$?

[jgrinz]

It not but because its the only one graded ( WHY I have no idea ) in that grade - he thinks its worth loads ... I guess ...

 

 

[CHABSENTIA]

That would be my take on it. The Seller thinks because it is the only one graded in that grade that it is a special deal and/or he hopes that somebody else will think the same.

[truthteller]

 

 

Coin is sold to an astute buyer.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[bsshog40]

I guess the rest of ya'll aren't very smart! I mean ASTUTE

[Jeff S]

Ok. Now educate me then so I to can be as clever.

[truthteller]

Ok. Now educate me then so I to can be as clever.

 

 

There is a different market for Fair and Poor coins in holders. Some people know the market and most people don't. This low end market is very thin, so if you have to be knowledgeable enough how to price these coins. What is the difference between someone saying a $20K 1964 Jefferson nickel PCG64FS is overpriced, and someone saying a colored commem selling for 10 times sheet is outrageous? Ignorance of the market, which obviously leads to some folks making money off those who don't know the true value.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[jgrinz]

I guess the rest of ya'll aren't very smart! I mean ASTUTE

 

He meant to say an Instituted Buyer

[bsshog40]

I don't know the market for these PO coins at all, but I have seen Pat (braddick) posting some that he has and I'm sure that there are others. I figure there's always someone for something. Heck, I throw cereal boxes away. I actually knew someone that collected them. Lots of storage needed for that type of collecting!

[Jeff S]

Ah Ok so it is as hard or harder to get some coins in such low grades than high grades and not get a “NO GRADE” back form a TGP. Such as I have a 2001 S Clad Rhode Island PF66 UC that is the lowest grade given out and a pop of only 1 in the NGC census report.

Thanks Truth for the quick lesson

 

 

[CHABSENTIA]

I really don't see the problem. Lets take two Classic cars of the same vintage etc.As an example lets take the same year etc of say a Silver Cloud Rolls Royce.

 

One is in Mint condition and one is allowed to deterioate over the years to a Poor condition. These are the only two in existence. I doubt somebody is going to apy the same price for the one in Poor condition as they are for the one in Mint Condition even though it is the only "poor" one in existence.

 

In the case of the coin it is probably a situation where it is the only one in that grade because only one person wanted to spend the Money to get it slabbed in that condition.It does not make it worth more because it is the only one in that grade in the known population.

 

A 1921 P Morgan has a Numismedia value of about $165.00 in MS65,Why would anybody want to spend $200.00 for one in Poor condition?

 

 

[truthteller]

I really don't see the problem. Lets take two Classic cars of the same vintage etc.As an example lets take the same year etc of say a Silver Cloud Rolls Royce.

 

One is in Mint condition and one is allowed to deterioate over the years to a Poor condition. These are the only two in existence. I doubt somebody is going to apy the same price for the one in Poor condition as they are for the one in Mint Condition even though it is the only "poor" one in existence.

 

In the case of the coin it is probably a situation where it is the only one in that grade because only one person wanted to spend the Money to get it slabbed in that condition.It does not make it worth more because it is the only one in that grade in the known population.

 

A 1921 P Morgan has a Numismedia value of about $165.00 in MS65,Why would anybody want to spend $200.00 for one in Poor condition?

 

 

 

 

Let's say there are buyers for the "lowest" graded coins out there. Say someone is building the lowest graded Morgan dollar set in existence. Maybe even two or three people building these sets. They all have to be slabbed, meaning no problem or damaged coins(in low grade this is often a problem). Well, the collector wants the coin. How easy is it to get it? Call 25 coin dealers and you might NEVER find the particular date you are looking for. Call 25 dealers and I AM SURE you will find a 1921 Morgan in MS65. It's all demand. I can get in my hand an MS65 coin within days, try that with a P0-1 or Fair-2 coin, any date, and you might never get it. Price guides mean nothing when it comes to esoteric coins like these.I personally know a dealer who is putting together the lowest graded commem set out there. He will pay substantially more for a P0-1 Iowa commem than an MS65.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[CHABSENTIA]

Again if I am trying to construct the lowest priced set then why would I spend $200.00 for a coin in poor condition when I could get one for $150.00 in MS65 condition? This assumes that I am trying to construct the best set I can afford .

 

If I am for some reason trying to construct the a set in the worst condition then there are several routes. I can purchase many coins in the raw state on Ebay in this condition for less than $200.00.Lets say I purcase this coin in a raw state for $18.00.I sent it to NGC and they body bag it because it has been cleaned.I can still send it to NGC or to ANACS and get it slabbed with a "detail" grade..Even sending the coin to both places still costs a great deal less than $200.00

 

If I send the coin to NGC and they grade and slab it accordingly then I still pay substantially less than $200.00

 

Your scenario makes no sense unless one is deliberatley trying to create a set of Morgans in the worst condition for the highest price. If this is the object then I am sure that many people will be glad to sell you any Morgan in raw condition with the exception of the 1893 and 1895 years etc for only a $150.00 .

[truthteller]

Well, I've been doing coins for 25+ years. I can say that I have seen thousands of 1921 morgans that qualify for MS63-65 grade, thousands. I also can say that I have see a mere handful of undamaged P0-1 or Fair-2 1921 Morgans, a handful, most before slabbing even existed. Bottom line, you will never pass up a raw P0-1 or Fair-2 Morgan again.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[CoinCurious]

Hey truth. I have a beautiful 1893 Columbian graded by PCGS AG03. Your dealer friend can have it for $200.

[CoinCurious]

Sorry, cant help myself. I have to show a pic.

[CHABSENTIA]

Again you answered your own question. If you have seen thousands of 1921 Morgans in MS 63-MS65 then you know they exist. Again why would I

[CHABSENTIA]

Again you answered your own question. If you have seen thousands of 1921 Morgans in MS 63-MS65 then you know they exist. Again why would I pay $200.00 for a coin that I can puchase for less than $50.00 in many different categories?

 

 

If there are a total population of 12 million Morgans in a given year then it stands to reason that there is more of a chance to get a number of grades anywhere from say F-12 to MS67.

 

I recently purchased a 1921 S Morgan MS64 for a total price of $125.00 including shipping and handling. I looked at them on Ebay for a few months.The coin in MS64 has a Numismedia value of $165.00 in this state and about $600.00 in MS65. THe cheapest bid I have seen for a 1921 S MS 64 on Ebay is in the $140.00 range plus shipping and handling. Just because there is a low population in a certain low grade does not make it more valuable because there is few in that population grade. If one owns a Ford escort that is 10 years old and in very poor condition and there are few of thme in that condition does not make it have a larger value then others of the same year in better condition amd less mileage with all the preventative maintenace at the recommneded time intervals.

 

Conversely a Morgan year which only has a total population of say 320,000 and very few known ones in a date better than an AU58 then those in a lesser grade will have a greater value than say the 1921 in MS65.

 

One can pay $200.00 for all the 1921 Morgans in F-12 that they desire. Try to get that much for them later with the sort of reasoning that because few are slabbed in that grade that they have value. I am sure that many on this Forum will let you purchase all the 1921s that you desire in F-12 or thereabouts for $125.00 slabbed or not and you can save $75.00 right off the bat. Many dealers will do the same

 

[CoinCurious]

I actually like the low grade certified coins. And in some instance would pay more for a coin that is graded no higher than AG03 than i would the same coin graded in lets say F12. And no, I know you want it but my Columbian is not for sale.

[braddick]

If TRUTH'S FA2 NGC 1921 Morgan had been an NGC (or, PCGS) PO1 I'd have offered him twice his asking price of $200.00 (and probably would have been turned down).

 

It's difficult to explain to people why the chase of these ultra low grade, problem free 20th century coins are difficult to locate and a bunch of fun when they are, but it just is.

[truthteller]

Hey truth. I have a beautiful 1893 Columbian graded by PCGS AG03. Your dealer friend can have it for $200.

 

Sorry, but your Columbian is too nice.

 

 

 

To end this thread, some folks will never understand or want to understand some aspects of the coin market, and that's OK, just more money for me to make. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

TRUTH

[CHABSENTIA]

In one aspect it is not difficult to understand. My point was that they do not have more value because they have a low population.

 

There was an article in Coin World in a recent issue.It talked about a certain Morgan VAM. NGC would not attribute it on a label because they only do it for the Hot 50 and top 100.

 

ANACS has only attributed a total of three of this particular Morgan Vam and they are all AU and worse. In AU this Morgan Vam is worth $750.00. If somebody had the same coin and it was MS 60 then it would be a great deal more as it would be the only one so far. If next month somebody dropped a few hundred of the same VAM on the Market the existing ones would go down in value even if they were AU or worse.

 

A common date Morgan such as the 1921 with nothing but the fact that it has a low population in a certain grade has no extra value . If somebody was to have a 1921 in MS 68 etc and it had a low population then that is another issue.

 

 

If one ones to talk about Sentimental Value or amassing a collection with slabs of the worst grade then that is another situation.. Neither has nothing to do with a Market value of $200.00

 

While there might be people that would pay for such a collection they are the exception rather than the Norm.. If a person had such a collection and kept it and his/her heirs who had no interest in the Collection went to sell it then they would find that his/her sentimental value had little or no relation to real Market value..

 

If one want is to ignore the Economic aspects and gets Joy from the collection of such a set as well as a sense of accomplishment then this is another issue.

[bsshog40]

Here's a guy ATS that is proud of his PO Morgans! Some people do collect! PO1 Morgan

[CHABSENTIA]

I don't believe that I ever stated that people do not collect such a grade. I said that there may be some but that they are very few and far between. None of the reasons for it can in most situations are for Economic reasons for the most part.

 

Here in Jacksonville recently there was a Woman who for the Guiness book of records went for "playing the piano the longest period of time". Apparently it gave her a sense of accomplishment and was something she wanted to do.Doing something for the sake of doing it is one thing..

[bsshog40]

I don't believe that I ever stated that people do not collect such a grade. I said that there may be some but that they are very few and far between. None of the reasons for it can in most situations are for Economic reasons for the most part.

 

Here in Jacksonville recently there was a Woman who for the Guiness book of records went for "playing the piano the longest period of time". Apparently it gave her a sense of accomplishment and was something she wanted to do.Doing something for the sake of doing it is one thing..

 

I wasn't jumping you Chab. I just happened to notice this ATS and thought I'd post this.

[CHABSENTIA]

Didn't feel that you were jumoping me. Sorry if you got that Impression. I can see where people would want to collect the poorest of the best etc. I would rather collect a few Morgans with better grades then many or a complete set of poor Morgans.I can also see the "hunt" to acquire the worst. It would seem to me that this would be harder as how would one know if somebody else didn;t have a poorer quality of a Morgan of the same date? Much easier ot have a Star or PL or DPL ETC of the higher grade.

[bsshog40]

I preferrably would also like to have better graded coins as PO's are just not my cup of tea.