PCGS is now undergrading coins because of the pressure from the formation of the

[MikeKing]

CAC.

Yes, I have confirmed it...with my submissions, AU55-58 are now coming back AU53. Believe me, I can usually predict what PCGS will grade a coin of mine (whether or not I agree with it, they have a certain 'style', in fact, it's not the Sheldon Scale, it's the PCGS scale).

 

To me, it's self evident. This whole CAC thing, all the talk, all the blitzing that went on accross the street, and the actual formation of the CAC (by most notable people I may add), has genuinely put the pressure on PCGS such that they are ludicrously under-grading coins.

 

I so humbly submit.

[WinstonWare]

Interesting. What coins are we talking about Mike, CBHs?

[123cents]

If you are talking about CBH's I totally agree. I don't know about other types because CBH's are all I have submitted.

[bsshog40]

I just don't understand how a company like PCGS that has been in business for so long can let a new company with no roots effect the way it performs it's normal business practices.

[carson city]

Dream on and enjoy whatever you are smoking !

[physics-fan3.14]

I just don't understand how a company like PCGS that has been in business for so long can let a new company with no roots effect the way it performs it's normal business practices.

 

While it is a new company, the players involved are not exactly newcomers to the scene. Remember, at least some of these people are very influential in the hobby, and we are talking about rather large players. I would think that when they speak, at least some people might sit up and listen.

[bsshog40]

But enough to make a Top TPG lower grades on coins? I just don't think I can understand the intimidation here.

[physics-fan3.14]

Boss, I don't know all the facts here, but I would not be surprised if PCGS tightened up a little. I mean, they do it every now and then, it might be time for a little reining in.

[bsshog40]

Boss, I don't know all the facts here, but I would not be surprised if PCGS tightened up a little. I mean, they do it every now and then, it might be time for a little reining in.

 

Hey I agree. It may have people going back to , we've all heard it before, "Buying the coin and not the slab". Whatever works!!

[physics-fan3.14]

Boss, I don't know all the facts here, but I would not be surprised if PCGS tightened up a little. I mean, they do it every now and then, it might be time for a little reining in.

 

Hey I agree. It may have people going back to , we've all heard it before, "Buying the coin and not the slab". Whatever works!!

 

I don't know about all that. That would just be sensible.

[bsshog40]

Well my outlook on things is that for some reason, PCGS slabs always get more money than the other TPG's. If PCGS is lowering grades due to the CAC, then what's to say that most of there coins haven't been over-graded in the first place. I don't think that if I had a business, that I would make my products less than what they really were because for fear of someone else QC'ing them. If I was confident in my qualifications and judgements, what would there be to fear???

[jackson64]

many of us at another forum have felt like NGC has been doing this for over ayear. Anything dated b4 1950 is graded pretty harsh, I've been getting better grades on PCGS submissions than NGC submissions for over a year..

 

The new stuff is a no-brainer if you want higher grades --NGC--they don't use a quota system.....I don't think CAC has a thing to do with this, grade tightening and loosening has been in flux since slabs have been around...

 

The Earth has increased 16 degrees in temperature in the last 18,000 years ...yet man/industry/cars are being blamed for the 2/10th increase measured since 1900---the conclusions people draw with limited info are mind boggling..

[Coin]

Exactly , but do not TPGs 'market' grade?

 

[gmarguli]

Don't you think that it could be that they tightened due to the downturn in the marketplace? The market takes a dive and the number of coins going thru the TPG has dropped and they clamp down in order to have coins to upgrade during the next hot market? I have first hand knowledge of there being significantly lower submissions at 2 of the TPG and suspect that it is the same at the other 2. I know one of the top 4 is really hurting for submissions.

 

I also wouldn't just say that it is just PCGS that has tightened up. I've found my recent submissions to NGC to be very harshly graded. Usually I'll just submit thru these periods, but I've found the recent grading so strict on both US and foreign that I've held back close to 1,100 coins that were scheduled to be submitted this year.

[just-john]

With the slow down of submissions maybe now their's time to look at the coins being submitted.With 100's of thousands going through each month i was amazed they could get them in their slabs that fast .Being opened put in their inventory graded slabbed packaged and shipped back to the customer

[cpm9ball]

The Earth has increased 16 degrees in temperature in the last 18,000 years ...yet man/industry/cars are being blamed for the 2/10th increase measured since 1900---the conclusions people draw with limited info are mind boggling..

 

Wasn't about half of the planet covered by glaciers 18,000 years ago? What was the world population, then, as compared to now? I'm no scientist, but I would think it would make a big difference.

 

I happened to catch part of a Discovery Channel show on glaciers, and most of the world's (present-day) glaciers have shrunk to less than half their original size. Where do you think we get most of our fresh water?

 

Chris

[CTcollector1]

Is PCGS really undergrading or have they now gotten their act together and grading coins to their appropriate levels ? Its funny how behavior changes when there is a legitimate watch dog around...

[IGWT]

Don't you think that it could be that they tightened due to the downturn in the marketplace?

 

That was my first thought, as well. It's certainly a possible factor if the grading has tightened.

[WinstonWare]

PCGS is the most defensive company that I have ever encountered. Shush…they’re watching!

[IGWT]

PCGS is the most defensive company that I have ever encountered. Shush…they’re watching!

Some people think they're offensive.

[jesbroken]

I cannot speak for PCGS, but I have submitted several times to NGC lately and I cannot visualize their being a slow down there. They are constantly running later than advertized for Economy and Earlybird. My last submission took 25 days on Economy(they are saying 24 now) I have a submission now in QC and another just sent in. I'll have 6 or more at the end of the month(I may re-join a month early just to utilize the free-five)

I have enjoyed fair grading on IHC's and Shield's(the bulk of my submissions) and even on SCD's(which they were very helpful on re-attributing as a first coin attributed with this particular designation). I have not sent any CBH's. but do have an LSD currently.

From my limited perspective, I do not think that NGC is suffering a slow down in submissions and I feel they are grading very fairly and reasonable.

Yes, in the past, I sent coins that should not have been sent. With the help of this board and many, many books I have improved with presubmission decisions. I have also learned a trick or two with questionable coin submissions from board members.

Thanks to you all for your help. (thumbs u

[MBA101]

My dealer told me that CAC is causing the TPG's to grade more conservatively. I saw it first hand with my latest submittal as you have seen me complain. He said that many dealers that he has spoken with say that they had been screwed on many of their coins.

 

Frankly, I think if you give it some time, things will even out. But in the meantime, if you find freshly graded coins in NGC/PCGS slabs, you may be able to snag a real-nice-for-the-grade coin at a price commensurate with the grade on the slab, and not what you feel the coin should be.

 

This should just be a small snapshot in time of all of our collecting lives. We are all going to wind up with overgraded and undergraded coins when we reach the point of liquidation. So move on and deal with it by buying more.

[James_OldeTowne]

CAC.

Yes, I have confirmed it...with my submissions, AU55-58 are now coming back AU53. Believe me, I can usually predict what PCGS will grade a coin of mine (whether or not I agree with it, they have a certain 'style', in fact, it's not the Sheldon Scale, it's the PCGS scale).

 

To me, it's self evident. This whole CAC thing, all the talk, all the blitzing that went on accross the street, and the actual formation of the CAC (by most notable people I may add), has genuinely put the pressure on PCGS such that they are ludicrously under-grading coins.

 

I so humbly submit.

Honestly, I don't think PCGS could care less about CAC. I suspect other reasons for tight grading. It isn't a new phenomenon, and I have to say that I truly hate it when external factor affect how coins are graded.

 

I suspect Greg is closer to the truth. Absurd undergrading yields to increased (re)submissions. That means more income.

[okbustchaser]

How about just simply admitting that they were overgrading before? The fact(?) that they have tightened up doesn't mean that they are undergrading now.

[MBA101]

How about just simply admitting that they were overgrading before? The fact(?) that they have tightened up doesn't mean that they are undergrading now.

 

On busties and other early type, it looks to me like they give higher grades to coins that have been dipped. If luster is subdued by heavy toning, even with little wear, coins are getting whacked. Especially when weak strikes are involved. Sometimes I think that they try to grade as many as possible as quickly as possible and just don't spend enough time on some of these coins to properly get a feel for them.

[CHABSENTIA]

I sent some Morgans to NGC that arrived there on the 28th of November and recently checked fro Economy and the Turnaround is 26 Business days.

 

If it was 24 when you checked then it has increased since I checked several days ago.This means that things have slowed down and there are more submissions.

 

I don't know this for a fact but Christmas is coming up and perhaps more people are sending in coins to be graded to give as gifts and perhaps Dealers are sending in more for grading for the Holiday season for Sales .

 

Also I received an E Mail from the U.S. Mint last week that my Subscription for the 2008 Proof Silver Eagle would be processed in three weeks which is now two weeks.

 

I also saw where Dealers are taking Pre- Orders for the 2008 Mint State Silver Eagle so these are being submitted.

 

All the above amounts to an increase in submisssions.

[gmarguli]

Over the past two months I've seen faster turnaround times for US coins. My records show a (3) day turnaround on Early Bird, (2) day for Express - which is as advertised, and (6) & (9) days for Modern. World coins has been slow to average.

[Dcoin]

For every action there is a reaction...simple. If this is true, the formation of CAC must have some effect on the TPG's that they are policing.

[DC Dawg]

Frankly, I think if you give it some time, things will even out. But in the meantime, if you find freshly graded coins in NGC/PCGS slabs, you may be able to snag a real-nice-for-the-grade coin at a price commensurate with the grade on the slab, and not what you feel the coin should be.

I was just thinking about this... then when the market shakes out and the CAC dissolves into the woodwork, you can crack out those coins and resubmit them to see if you can get a higher grade!

 

It works for me! Right now, I am 4 for 4 with one tie on the crack-out game from old holders!

 

Scott

[MikeKing]

How about just simply admitting that they were overgrading before? The fact(?) that they have tightened up doesn't mean that they are undergrading now.

 

tightening up doesn't mean under-grading, but I am talking about actual real time under-grading. I've played the game, I have a pretty good predictive rate at what PCGS will grade my coins irrespective of what I believe the 'real' grade to be, and I feel now that indeed they are actually under-grading coins. Now, that doesn't mean all the coins, but my guess is that there will be more under-graded coins now than over-graded, simply because they have gone a little beyond tighening up, in lieu of the fact that several MAJOR players in the coin industry are challenging them thru the formation of the CAC.