eBay to Revise Certified Coin Policy

[gmarguli]

The following was posted by Wayne Herndon ATS. I know he was going to post it over here, but his next scheduled visit isn't until around December 23rd, so I decided to post it for him. Wayne.

 

eBay has meet with representatives of the dealer community and is in the process of revising the policies instituted a couple of months ago. Here's information that was posted on a dealer-to-dealer message system:

 

eBay Trust & Safety and J Daniel Rare Coins Certified Coins meeting 11/20/2007:

 

Our meeting with eBay Trust & Safety last Tuesday was very successful. They were grateful for our input and have heard the concerns of the dealer community.

 

eBay is pulling back the Certified Coins policy. They’ve had a number of calls from leading eBay coin dealers and received enough valuable feedback to identify the pain points and revise the policy. The original policy relied heavily on the input of the ANA, which is collector-centric and didn’t fully take into account the impact on the

dealer community.

 

The intent of the plan is part of eBay’s overall efforts to combat counterfeiting and fraud. The biggest issue in our category was to cut out the abuse of ‘junk’ graders.

 

The revisions to the Certified Coin policy that are in the works are:

• Having individual pictures and serial numbers for lower average selling price items doesn’t make sense and will no longer be required.
  They are in the process of identifying categories to ‘carve out’ of the new Certified Grading policy. When they do so, we will be able to list these ‘commoditized’ slabs as we used to.
  
• According to eBay, they have backed off from enforcing the new policy
  
• The serial number requirement will be changed so there will be a confidential way for bidders to verify that coins exist through a buy-side serial number verification button. However, it will be done in a way that we will not have to publicly reveal the serial number, either in item description, item specifics, or images.
  
• It was recommended that eBay add a Canadian grading service (ICCS)
  
• For those dealers who wanted to add other companies to the list of
  sanctioned grading companies, I don’t sense they will change the list.

Other suggestions we made:

• Clearly announce to the dealer community what the changes in the policy are, when they’ll be enforced, etc.
  
• Clearly announce to the buyer community that there is a new policy in force and its impact on listings
  
• Make certain that eBay employees can cite the policy chapter and verse and understand how it is to be implemented
  
• Reinstating numerical grading terms for raw coins in item titles, as it is a long-standing industry standard.

I will be following conducting more follow-ups with Trust & Safety. We’ll continue to work with them on shaping the policy to our mutual satisfaction. When they are ready to announce the changes, I’ll let you know.

[pendragon1998]

Sounds more reasonable - thanks, Greg

[DC Dawg]

For those dealers who wanted to add other companies to the list of

sanctioned grading companies, I don’t sense they will change the list.

I wonder what JT Stanton and the good folks at PCI have to say about this?

 

And what about SEGS, who is the "official grader" of the Full-step Nickel Club?

 

eBay is still being short sighted on this policy and the "advice" given to them from the ANA on their version of acceptable grading services amounts to market manipulation and could be considered as an anti-competitive move. eBay's problem is that their headquarters are in the Ninth Circuit, who is more liberal on the interpretation of consumer protection laws.

 

Further, the FTC is allowed to regulate the policies on advertising. If eBay allows the listing of slabs not from the top 4, then they cannot restrict the advertising requirement. The FTC has fined several sites (Overstock.com was one) for contradictory policies in allowing the promotion of goods and services. If eBay was the seller, then they could do what ever they want. But to prevent me from listing a PCI slab as a PCI slab with its grade can be considered a violation.

 

If eBay does not get its act together, I will just file complaints against them with the FTC and let them ring up lawyer fees defending the complaints. That should get their attention!

 

Scott

[James_OldeTowne]

Hey, that's cool! I guess the slam on eBay that I have in all my auction listings paid off!

 

[Houston Investor]

Its about time they woke up to reason.

[Hoot]

And what about SEGS, who is the "official grader" of the Full-step Nickel Club?

 

Scott

 

Hi scott - SEGS is no longer the official grader of the FSNC. Presently, we have no official grader, although some negotiation may occur in the future with other grading firms.

 

Hoot

[jackson64]

Ebay knows who butters their bread...must have been a slight downturn in the old profit margin. VIVA la -NNC, ACG (and my favorite) PGCS & NCG!!!!! MS69DMPL Morgans for everyone !!!

[gmarguli]

Ebay knows who butters their bread...must have been a slight downturn in the old profit margin. VIVA la -NNC, ACG (and my favorite) PGCS & NCG!!!!! MS69DMPL Morgans for everyone !!!

 

I don't think it was just a downturn in those slabs. I've had several very long conversations with my account manager and when I was asked about my decreasing sales volume, I flat out told them the reason. If you're going to double the amount of time it takes me to get an auction up and running, I'm going to only list a maximum of half as much stuff. Additionally, I'll more actively look for other sales avenues as my profit/time is greatly decreased while using eBay.

 

Since this policy started, I've run probably around 20% of the auctions I'd normally have run. At the same time my direct sales volume has skyrocketed - none of which eBay gets a cut of.

[jackson64]

I meant no offense toward any dealers here who rely on ebay. My comments were only directed at ebay's ridiculous lack of effort to follow through with fraudulant dealers---some dealers sell: fake coins, artificially toned coins, self slabs being promoted as legitimate grading services, altered coins, etc etc..when an educated buyer points it out to ebay, all that they do is pull the one specific listing and let this shady crook go on with business as usual..

[CHABSENTIA]

Exactly.One of my most recent experiences concerns a Dealer who mailed my coin 6 days after my Instant Payment.When I had not heard anything about it being shipped then I asked.I don't know if he sent it out six days later because I reminded him or just mixed it up in another batch or not.

 

I asked for a tracking number on the coin and he told me that the Post office didn't give tracking numbers.I then told him that I had paid an optional charge of $1.50 for Insurance and there would be a number on the receipt.Turned out that he had not purchased Insurance.He turned it around to say I was complaining about a measly $1.50. I asked him what he would have done if the Package had been lost and he said "you got your coin.Whats the problem?'

 

He then told me that all my Emails that asked for the Status of my coin were harrassment and he would report me to EBay if I sent any more and If I gave him Negative then he would give me Negative feedback.

 

He also mentioned earlier that there was no time frame as to when he had to send the coin and that the 10 days started the day he mailed the coin.I told him that this was ridiculous as he could wait 2 weeks and then mail the coin. I told him that I could file 10 days after the auction ended and for sure 10 days after I had paid.

 

He also said that I wouldn't be able to bid on any of his future auctions.Give me a break.

 

I personally don't care and unless a Seller files a fraudalent claim against me then I don't give negative feedback. I just don't give any at all.This is one of the ways that some of the sellers get their high ratings. They just threaten retaliation.I just don't do business with them anymore.

 

I have had many problems with some Sellers and some will go out of their way.You are correct that EBAY has certain policies because they do not want to antagonize the Sellers who pay the fees.They do not enforce Policies unless they get several complaints. There are people advertising certified coins such as NGC with comments such as PQ Quality or PL or should be a MS66 when the certification is a MS65 or MS64.I have seen raw AU coins advertised as a superb au. What is a superb au?

 

I don't see that much changed with the new policy of a few months ago.When asked if a coin had been cleaned I got " Its over 100 years old.I guess it could have been cleaned".

[wayneherndon]

, Greg.

 

WH

[jesbroken]

Chabsentia,

The reason nothing is done about these types of sellers is that it would lower Ebay's Sellers feedback scores and Ebay does not want them lowered, that would negatively affect business from their key sellers. It would be so easy to just install an auto feedback system for buyers who have paid on time, but as I said, that would prevent the threat of retaliatory feedback, which controls people who are afraid of such tactics(most buyers). When Ant starts his new Oboy! on line auction company he will have this program.

I never buy again from any seller that does not immediately leave feedback for a timely payment. The ones that do are honest and I reuse time and time again. But most buyers just complain and go on and do nothing. Dishonesty sucks on all sides of the selling spectrum, but it more often rears its head on the selling side.JMO

 

[CHABSENTIA]

I agree.The problem is the situation that I just reffered to with the Seller that took did not ship my coin after an Instant Payment and did not obtain the Optional Insurance for which I paid extra.If there had been Insurance and the coin had been lost then I would probably have to wait 30 days after the Seller went to the P.O

 

If this coin had been lost then there was no Insurance because he did not purchase it.Due to his General attitude I doubt if it would be honored.I realize that some Sellers make a little more Profit by charging $7.00 for shipping and then paying $2.00 for postage..The problem I had here was mainly the Insurance.I knew the charge for Postage going in .

 

According to his feedbacks the Guy walks on Water.I am like you and want to get to the point where you are dealing with really great dealers..The problem here is that you might need a date and type that is not for sale by them and you have to go outside the loop.

 

I am looking for a certain Morgan and Teletrade has not had it in their last four and next two auctions.

 

I got a coin from Teletrade a few weeks ago and this was the first time it had been offered since May of these year.

 

You are correct.EBay tolerates these bad Sellers becuase of their Volume etc. and Buyers that are afraid of retaliation perpetuate the Myth.

[Frank Provasek]

Someone created a "tattletale" website called www.reportcoinauctions.com which is supposed to help people make automatic reports of unallowed grading services on ebay.

 

"Welcome to ReportCoinAuctions.Com! Our goal is to make it easy for coin collectors to help remove the clutter from eBay. With your help we can make eBay a safer place. If all of you come here once a day and report just 5 auctions.... well.... wow!

 

Below are all the newly listed items with disallowed grading companies in the title of the listing. (You can be more specific to the left) This is not allowed. The report form link above and the listing titles below open in new windows. Just paste the item numbers into the form."

 

 

 

Some guy's PCGS coins were showing up because he is warning people not to buy NTC coins...

 

Auctions are being reported as from the ANI grading service that are for ICG, PCGS, and NGC slabbed SpANIsh coins, or from AfghANIstan or an Adha-ANI from Nepal.

 

I am sure the cluless ebay employees were pulling legitimate auctions based on these automated reports and sending out their usual canned emails about violations of the counterfeit policy.

 

An attorney has been asking for anonymous information about the website owner, and the website has suddenly been pulled. There is a partial archive here

 

Link