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Update !! Fake or real mintmark on 1932-D quarter ?

Started by jman425,

34 posts in this topic

MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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I would recommend returning the coin immediately AND not buying uncertified examples of coins that are commonly counterfeited and/or have mint-marks added to them.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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The "D" always sits in a recessed area on this coin, and it almost looks like this one does as well. However, it is definitely not supposed to be that drastically repunched. My opinion is that if you shake this coin too hard, the mintmark is likely to fall off.

 

Return it!

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jman425

jman425

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J, would you be able to post a pic of the original picture so we can see what it looked like at the time of auction?
, the original pic has been taken down.

I also won a 1932-S from them 2 days later and I should be getting it today. Really curious to see what that looks like. The pics for this one has been switched. The original ones are by the description, now showing only a red x. Believe me, I would not pay money for a blurry shot of a key date coin.

 

Should I return the coin outright (with their restock fee) or report the counterfeit to paypal/ebay ? I have read in other threads here that the Secret Service or FBI could get involved since this is tampering with US currency with intention to commit fraud.

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bsshog40

bsshog40

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It may be hard to reprt something like this as I'm sure they would have to have proof that the seller did the tampering or would say that he sold it unknowingly of course. I would definately try to get a fast refund if they look in any way shape or form of being tampered with.

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awb

awb

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To file a complaint with eBay, you'd have to prove it to be a counterfeit. The opinions of a few people on a message board are hardly proof, in my mind. (They're probably right, but it isn't really proof.)

 

Assuming the mint mark was added, I'm not sure the FBI/Secret Service would get involved, since he hasn't really counterfeited a coin. He simply modified a real coin, so there is no attempt to defraud someone of 25 cents. The coin is still worth 25 cents face value. He attempted to defraud a collector, which seems to me something separate from counterfeiting currency.

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jman425

jman425

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To file a complaint with eBay, you'd have to prove it to be a counterfeit. The opinions of a few people on a message board are hardly proof, in my mind. (They're probably right, but it isn't really proof.)

 

Assuming the mint mark was added, I'm not sure the FBI/Secret Service would get involved, since he hasn't really counterfeited a coin. He simply modified a real coin, so there is no attempt to defraud someone of 25 cents. The coin is still worth 25 cents face value. He attempted to defraud a collector, which seems to me something separate from counterfeiting currency.

Found this on a different thread...

Although altering and defacing United States coinage generally is not illegal, doing so violates a Federal criminal statute (18 U.S.C. § 331) when the act is accompanied by an intent to defraud.

Using the PCGS price guide as an example, you are increasing the value of the coin by about 30 fold by adding the mintmark, so intent to defraud is there.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Should I return the coin outright (with their restock fee) or report the counterfeit to paypal/ebay ?
I would politely insist upon a return without having to pay the re-stocking fee under the circumstances.
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construct

construct

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I agree with those who believed the mint mark was added. That's not what the mint mark depression looks like on a real one.

 

I agree with Mark that you should try to get them to waive the restocking fee when you return it, but their refusal to waive the fee is not a good reason to keep it.

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jman425

jman425

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I'm surprised no one noticed the little air pocket at the base of the mint mark (edge view) and also that it's a little raised in relation to the rest of the coin.

I'm going to wait til my 1932-S comes in today and examine it before I send the seller an email. If that turns out to be a fake also, I will warn everyone to steer clear of this seller (operates under 2 names).

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moovyz

moovyz

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I would try to capture the pic of the 32-S quick. If they did this once...

 

 

I would ask for a FULL refund. Whether you get it all or not, I would definately do all you can to report this, including Negative feedback to warn others.

 

 

I had a guy tamper with the photos on one of my purchaes by re-touching (re-pixleing) over a bad spot.

 

 

I got a refund, but I am still going after him. I have all the documentation and all the pics, hard copy and on the puter.

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jman425

jman425

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Well, I got my 1932-S and it looks suspicious too.

Here is the close-up of what was suppose to be an "S".

 

6y3qpzt.jpg

 

So now I have both altered coins in my possession. I will be filing a dispute with ebay/paypal to get my money back and still contemplating reporting them to the Secret Service.

 

A browse of their website came up with this...

 

Today counterfeit coins are made primarily to simulate rare coins which are of value to collectors. Sometimes this is done by altering genuine coins to increase their numismatic value. The most common changes are the removal, addition or alteration of the coin's date or mint marks.

Anyone who alters a genuine coin to increase its numismatic value is in violation of Title 18, Section 331 of the United States Code, which is punishable by a fine or imprisonment for up to five years, or both.

 

http://www.treas.gov/usss/money_coins.shtml

http://www.treas.gov/usss/money_law.shtml

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jman425

jman425

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So who is this seller so others can avoid them????

 

Bruce

"shcoins" and their other name, "coinedout" from Puyallup, WA.

Notice, when searching closed auctions, how they pull most pictures on the raw coins (I presume so they can bait and switch) after it closes because they use an outside link instead of ebay pictures. All you see are red Xs by the text. However, on their certified/slabbed coins, they use ebay pics because you they are traceable.

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construct

construct

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Okay. I've looked over a few of his auctions. A couple made me raise my eyebrows, but this one stands out. It is listed as a 1934-S dollar in AU. I would have a hard time grading this coin as high as EF details. It is also heavily hairlined. I suspect it is harshly cleaned. (I'm also not completely sure it's a 34-S. It might be a 34-D.)

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1934-S-Peace-Dollar-AU-KEY_W0QQitemZ120183276692QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Here is another 32-D quarter. The picture looks to me like it might even be genuine (if overgraded).

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1932-D-Washington-Quarter-XF-AU-KEY-DATE_W0QQitemZ120183664786QQihZ002QQcategoryZ39462QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

And how about this 34-D dollar in AU? Is it possible for a strike to be that soft on a 34-D?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1934-D-Peace-Dollar-AU_W0QQitemZ120184642821QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Okay. I've looked over a few of his auctions. A couple made me raise my eyebrows, but this one stands out. It is listed as a 1934-S dollar in AU. I would have a hard time grading this coin as high as EF details. It is also heavily hairlined. I suspect it is harshly cleaned. (I'm also not completely sure it's a 34-S. It might be a 34-D.)

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1934-S-Peace-Dollar-AU-KEY_W0QQitemZ120183276692QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Here is another 32-D quarter. The picture looks to me like it might even be genuine (if overgraded).

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1934-S-Peace-Dollar-AU-KEY_W0QQitemZ120183276692QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

And how about this 34-D dollar in AU? Is it possible for a strike to be that soft on a 34-D?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1934-D-Peace-Dollar-AU_W0QQitemZ120184642821QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You've got links to the 34-S dollar twice, one of them when you were speaking of a 32-D quarter. The 34-D dollar merely looks worn - I see nothing odd about it.
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construct

construct

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You've got links to the 34-S dollar twice, one of them when you were speaking of a 32-D quarter. The 34-D dollar merely looks worn - I see nothing odd about it.

 

I'm sorry. Here's the link to the 32-D quarter. I'll fix the other link in a minute to avoid confusion.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1932-D-Washington-Quarter-XF-AU-KEY-DATE_W0QQitemZ120183664786QQihZ002QQcategoryZ39462QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

And you're right about the 34-D dollar. I just think it's a little too worn to call AU.

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jman425

jman425

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You've got links to the 34-S dollar twice, one of them when you were speaking of a 32-D quarter. The 34-D dollar merely looks worn - I see nothing odd about it.
Nothing odd except that it looks just like the coin I bid on, except they took it down after the auction !!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280169542424&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=018

Notice the pictures have now been replaced by red Xs.

The pictures all look genuine (if not a little overgraded) but they do a "bait and switch" with the coin that you receive. And since the pictures are taken down, you don't have the original image to reference to.

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moovyz

moovyz

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No pics come up at all for the 32-D quarter. You've got him on a "bait and switch" if you were able to capture any pic. His description clearly states that photo is of actual coin.

 

 

This is another dealer that needs to be prosecuted.

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jman425

jman425

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After extensive meetings with several dealers and one that studied counterfeit detection, the 1932-S has been determined to be real and the opinion is split on the 1932-D. There is known instances of double struck Ds for that year (he had one in an ANACS slab) but the mark on my coin looks more squarish.

So for now, counterfeits... maybe not. Serious overgrading ? They all had a good laugh when they saw the seller's description and determined that it was about 10-15 pts off.

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