STEEL---It's just not for cents anymore.......

[carson city]

The Nov. 19th CoinWorld front page article indicates that the House has proposed a bill to change all circulating coinage to STEEL to combat the rising prices of metals used in coinage.

 

Would you be a collector of STEEL nickels, dimes, quarters and/or halfs ?

[TJ'S Coins]

Only if they are bright, shiny, corrosion resistant stainless steel I'd stick with older coins of copper, nickel, silver or gold as my preference. Clad coins, in general, do not interest me that much.

[bsshog40]

I would sure be a collector of the first year of mintage!!!

[relicsncoins]

I'm suprised they don't go the aluminum rout. You would think steel would take a heavy toll on die life.

 

JJ

[DC Dawg]

Here is the bill you are talking about:

 

[font:Book Antiqua]Cents and Sensibility Act[/font]

H.R. 4063

 

To amend title 31, United States Code, to save the American taxpayers money by immediately altering the metallic composition of the 1-cent coin, to require a prompt review and report, with recommendations, for cost-saving changes in the metallic content of other circulating United States coins, and for other purposes.

 

Sponsor: Peter Roskam (R-IL)

Co-Sponsor: Michale Castle (R-DE)

 

Considering the political persuasion of both sponsors, I think the chance of this passing is slim to none, and slim left town!

 

Scott

[EZ_E]

Good post, CC. Keep that up and you may not even be banned.

[Ted K-migration]

BSS you can have the regular ones, I'll be keeping my eyes open for clad "oops" coinage.

 

Seriously, though, I don't know how I really feel about it. I'm just starting to appreciate the joy of lincolns, and while I really like the 43s, it's because it was a 1 year thing. I like the look of the copper (or copper plated) ones, it would be odd to have them in another colour.

[construct]

The bill requires that the proposed steel cents be copper colored. I suppose they could be copper-coated like the zinc cents.

 

It sounds like something worth looking into.

[Conder101]

I'm surprised they don't go the aluminum rout. You would think steel would take a heavy toll on die life.

So would pure aluminum. Pure aluminum almost instantly forms a thin layer of aluminum oxide on the surface. Aluminum oxide is the second hardest natural substance known. It's thin layer does not prevent the striking of the coin and the softness of the aluminum can make the image strike up well, but as the metal flows past the surface of the die the oxide acts as an abrasive and rapidly wears the surface of the die. If the aluminum is plated though, the plating will act to protect the dies.

 

The cents could be copperplated as todays cents and the five cents nickel plated. that way they would look the same as todays coins. The aluminum five cent piece would be much too light in weight and vending machines would have fits trying to accept both coppernickel and aluminum five cent pieces. Nickel plated copper or brass would be very similar to in weight to todays coppernickel coins so they would work well. Nickel plated steel would be lighter, but it may still be possible to make the machines accept both types.

[DC Dawg]

I'm surprised they don't go the aluminum rout. You would think steel would take a heavy toll on die life.

So would pure aluminum. Pure aluminum almost instantly forms a thin layer of aluminum oxide on the surface. Aluminum oxide is the second hardest natural substance known. It's thin layer does not prevent the striking of the coin and the softness of the aluminum can make the image strike up well, but as the metal flows past the surface of the die the oxide acts as an abrasive and rapidly wears the surface of the die. If the aluminum is plated though, the plating will act to protect the dies.

 

The cents could be copperplated as todays cents and the five cents nickel plated. that way they would look the same as todays coins. The aluminum five cent piece would be much too light in weight and vending machines would have fits trying to accept both coppernickel and aluminum five cent pieces. Nickel plated copper or brass would be very similar to in weight to todays coppernickel coins so they would work well. Nickel plated steel would be lighter, but it may still be possible to make the machines accept both types.

Conder... it's not just the weight but the electromagnetic signature of the coins that are also used. Remember, that was one of the reasons the Mint suggested the current cupronickel composition because it did not change the electromagnetic signature of the coins.

 

Scott

[MikeInFL]

I think the fat lady is warmed up and singing as far as our current coinage is concerned, and a move to steel would signify yet a new song.

[EZ_E]

I think the fat lady is warmed up and singing as far as our current coinage is concerned, and a move to steel would signify yet a new song.

 

If our economy keeps going down the ter then a song and a fart will be more negotiable than our currency.

[Conder101]

Conder... it's not just the weight but the electromagnetic signature of the coins that are also used. Remember, that was one of the reasons the Mint suggested the current cupronickel composition because it did not change the electromagnetic signature of the coins.

That's true today, but even if you could do something to get the signatures to match the weight would still keep it from working.

 

As for the clad composition having the same signature as the silver coinage it replaced I seriously doubt it. First of all it would not have been needed back in 1965 because at that time vending machine coin mechanisms were not electrical but merely mechanical. They didn't measure electromagnetic signatures. One of the bigger problems they had back in the mid 60's, and a source of many complaints, was with the vending machines being able to accept one or the other. Often they could not accept both. If the machines were set in such a way so that they could take both they often wound up accepting a great many slugs as well because their weight tolerances were so broad. Once the machines were upgraded or replaced years later with electronic mechanisms the electromagnetic signatures became yet another way that that a genuine coin could be told from a fake, but that lead into the problem that changing the coins would now be much more difficult since the signatures of the new and old would have to match.

 

Also if they were the same todays metal detectors would not be able to differentiate between clad and silver coins since they would both read the same.

 

[DC Dawg]

Also if they were the same todays metal detectors would not be able to differentiate between clad and silver coins since they would both read the same.

That's a good point.

 

I do know that all of the modern coin operated vending machines can be reprogrammed "on the fly" for new features. This is how the folks who are doing currency systems are dealing with the changes in the new Federal Reserve Notes. Coins are not different except for the physical characteristics. Since it is all electronic these days, it should not be that difficult for the vending machine industry to make these changes should the composition of the coins change.

 

For that matter, why can't they look the take the new "smartcard" version of the credit/debit cards that lets you swipe your card on a reader? Another cool product would be to pre-pay for a soda in my office from my computer, be given a one-time code, and punch that code into the machine to be given a drink?

 

Ahh computers... they're not just for spam any more!!

 

Scott

[Conder101]

Since it is all electronic these days, it should not be that difficult for the vending machine industry to make these changes should the composition of the coins change.

It should be fairly easy to make the change on new machines, the problem is on all of the machines that are already out there in use.

 

I'm sure the recent ones could be reprogrammed fairly easily, but trying to get the machine operators to actually DO it is the problem. They will moan, scream, and cry about the hardship they have been placed under. The case of the dollar coin is a good case in point. Every machine out there that is less than 27 years old is capable of accepting the dollar coins but how many of them do? The machines come from the factory set to reject the coin and the operators complain that changing them to accept the coin would be too troublesome. But the only thing they have to do is flip a switch from reject to accept, loosen a screw and slide a plate to one side to widen the coin slot, and then re-tighten the screw. But that is just too much work for them. Tell them they will have to reprogram every machine so that it can accept both the old and new five cent pieces and they will scream bloody murder and demand that the coins not be changed.

[bsshog40]

I would tend to bet that the businesses that have these vending machines in place would make sure that any settings needed would get done. Most get a percentage of sales from these. I don't know of too many businesses that want to lose out on even a few dollars a day profit.

[Conder101]

The screaming will occur BEFORE the change is voted into place. Afterwards they will still complain mightily, but I agree they will also get the changes made very quickly.

 

They didn't HAVE to make the changes for the dollar coin or risk losing sales, after all you can still use four quarters and have to carry 22 grams of metal instead of 8. So they didn't bother. (27 years ago when the small dollar came out very few machines had dollar bill units)

[pendragon1998]

For that matter, why can't they look the take the new "smartcard" version of the credit/debit cards that lets you swipe your card on a reader? Another cool product would be to pre-pay for a soda in my office from my computer, be given a one-time code, and punch that code into the machine to be given a drink?

 

We had that on my previous college campus. Our ID cards had a mag strip and we could load it with "bucks" online. Some of the beverage machines on campus would accept the cards, so a quick swipe and a cold drink was in your hand. Most convienient. I think they found that people drink a lot more soda when they can swipe a card to buy it rather than fuss with change.

[bsshog40]

Pretty soon everything will be done with a swipe of a card. It wouldn't surprise me if PC's don't eventually come out with a secure card scanner for purchasing on-line.

[carson city]

Many vending machines take paper money, so not many sales will be lost.

[bsshog40]

Many vending machines take paper money, so not many sales will be lost.

 

This is true, but I was looking more at the output of a machine. Machines usually give back change in coin form and a lot of vending machines use the dollar coins for this purpose.

[DC Dawg]

Pretty soon everything will be done with a swipe of a card. It wouldn't surprise me if PC's don't eventually come out with a secure card scanner for purchasing on-line.

Credit card scanners exist. You can buy keyboards with the credit card scanner built in to the keyboard form factor. The problem is that there are integrity and security issues with doing this.

 

If you want, you can buy a product like this or this and use your own credit cards at home. These are the same devices that the identity thieves use to swipe credit card information.

 

Scott

[bsshog40]

I should have known Scott. I would agree that security would be the biggest flaw right now over the internet with card scanning.