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Who would you contact with proof someone was removing mint-marks from coins?

Started by MarkFeld,

24 posts in this topic

MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

I now have what I consider to be legal proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) from more than one source that Ebay seller trdwayne has been removing mint-marks from coins and selling them as scarce or rare P-mint (non mint-marked) issues. See here for his Ebay profile: [url= http://myworld.ebay.com/trdwayne/][/url]

 

I have contacted Ebay and plan to contact the secret service as well. Who else, if anyone should be notified?

 

Thanks.

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Arizonadesertrat

Arizonadesertrat

Posted
Posted
I now have what I consider to be legal proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) from more than one source that Ebay seller trdwayne has been removing mint-marks from coins and selling them as scarce or rare P-mint (non mint-marked) issues. See here for his Ebay profile: [url= http://myworld.ebay.com/trdwayne/][/url]

 

I have contacted Ebay and plan to contact the secret service as well. Who else, if anyone should be notified?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Altering the coins himself or simply selling altered coins?

When you contact Ebay, it would be a good idea to make it clear that you are contacting the feds and telling the feds that Ebay was notified about the problem---do this by Email, if possible (to leave an electronic trail).

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Arizonadesertrat

Arizonadesertrat

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Not sure, but could we use him to 'rub out' a certain Carson City before he gets tossed into the Pookka? :D

 

He was rather quiet yesterday. Must have been the 'go to your room' cartoon and spanking icon that followed my rant about CC on Thursday.

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Doogy

Doogy

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Mark,

 

In looking at his past auctions where he had several 1928 Peace dollars, i'd hazard a guess to say these had the 'S' removed also. Granted, the ones i noticed were harshly cleaned and damaged, but a true '28 P that is cleaned still has much more value than a harshly cleaned '28 S to collectors. are there any particular auctions in his feedback that are glaring examples?

 

good detective work!

 

Doug

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DC Dawg

DC Dawg

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I have contacted Ebay and plan to contact the secret service as well. Who else, if anyone should be notified?

I would contact the ANA ethics committee since the ANA and eBay are supposed to be "working together" on policing the auctions. If this person is an ANA member, then the ANA can help in whatever proceedings come of this.

 

If you don't have it, you can find the contact information to the Secret Service field offices here.

 

Keep us up to date as to what happens.

 

Scott :hi:

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gmarguli

gmarguli

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I have contacted Ebay and plan to contact the secret service as well. Who else, if anyone should be notified?

 

Why would the Secret Service care? The coins are not counterfeit nor designed to alter the denomination.

 

You could contact the US Postal Inspector and the FBI. I suspect the FBI would ignore you, but it is worth a shot. Maybe start with the local DA in the sellers area?

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XpipedreamR

XpipedreamR

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Why would the Secret Service care? The coins are not counterfeit nor designed to alter the denomination.

 

 

 

Check this out: link

 

 

Go down about four items to "Fraudulent Presidential $1 Error Coins Being Sold"

 

 

Apparently, according to the mint,

 

Although altering and defacing United States coinage generally is not illegal, doing so violates a Federal criminal statute (18 U.S.C. § 331) when the act is accompanied by an intent to defraud. Accordingly, a person is committing a Federal crime if he or she intentionally alters an ordinary Presidential $1 Coin to make it look like an error coin for the purpose of selling it at a premium to someone who believes it to be a real error coin. Under this statute, it is also a Federal crime to sell at a premium an ordinary Presidential $1 Coin that one knows has been altered so it looks like an error coin to someone who believes it to be a real error coin. Penalties include a fine and up to five years in prison.

 

The United States Mint has no Federal enforcement authority. Rather, it refers such matters to the United States Secret Service, which is lawfully authorized to detect and arrest any person who violates a Federal law relating to United States coinage.

 

 

Now, I had not been aware of "defraud" being used in this context with respect to the altering of coins. I thought it just pertained to altering the face value of the coin as you mentioned in your post. But there you have it from the mint, for whatever it's worth.

 

 

 

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ibyandsellsmith

ibyandsellsmith

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Anytime you do something to defraud, regardless of what it is, the law has been broken. I would contact the ANA since they are, in my opinion, the powerful ones that give a , and would most certainly take steps to getting this guy put in jail. Possession is 9/10's of the law, so regardless if he's altering the coin's himself or just selling altered coins, he's breaking the law.

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jackson64

jackson64

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Way to go Mark !!! I love to see fellow numismatists who still care about integrity in our hobby enough to take action. And contrary to one post I read, I do believe he can be charged for counterfeiting. I think I read that the defacing/altering of US currency falls under those guidelines. If he is doing this himself he could be looking at serious time in a Federal Bighouse...

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EZ_E

EZ_E

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When this seller was brought to light a few weeks ago, I checked out his merchandise and noticed a Barber coin with a discoloration where the mm should be. I asked him about it and he gave some excuse but never admitted to the possibility that it could have been removed. If he is truly scamming people then I truly hope that he goes to jail and faces a large fine and restitution.

 

Just look at his feedback, it shows you how gullible people really are!

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Conder101

Conder101

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I would contact the ANA ethics committee since the ANA and eBay are supposed to be "working together" on policing the auctions.

I spoke with the ANA VP this weekend in Indianapolis. She says that the ANA is NOT working with eBay about policing the auctions.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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I now have what I consider to be legal proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) from more than one source that Ebay seller trdwayne has been removing mint-marks from coins and selling them as scarce or rare P-mint (non mint-marked) issues. See here for his Ebay profile: [url= http://myworld.ebay.com/trdwayne/][/url]

 

I have contacted Ebay and plan to contact the secret service as well. Who else, if anyone should be notified?

 

Thanks.

Mark, what do you mean by "legal proof"? Are you using that phrase colloquially? I ask because I'm not sure it's illegal to remove a mintmark from a coin.

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Bruceswar

Bruceswar

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I now have what I consider to be legal proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) from more than one source that Ebay seller trdwayne has been removing mint-marks from coins and selling them as scarce or rare P-mint (non mint-marked) issues. See here for his Ebay profile: [url= http://myworld.ebay.com/trdwayne/][/url]

 

I have contacted Ebay and plan to contact the secret service as well. Who else, if anyone should be notified?

 

Thanks.

Mark, what do you mean by "legal proof"? Are you using that phrase colloquially? I ask because I'm not sure it's illegal to remove a mintmark from a coin.

 

Ok .. Then at least it is Fraud??

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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I now have what I consider to be legal proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) from more than one source that Ebay seller trdwayne has been removing mint-marks from coins and selling them as scarce or rare P-mint (non mint-marked) issues. See here for his Ebay profile: [url= http://myworld.ebay.com/trdwayne/][/url]

 

I have contacted Ebay and plan to contact the secret service as well. Who else, if anyone should be notified?

 

Thanks.

Mark, what do you mean by "legal proof"? Are you using that phrase colloquially? I ask because I'm not sure it's illegal to remove a mintmark from a coin.

James, sorry for the confusion. I meant proof that would hold up in a legal proceeding and convince a judge or jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

I spoke with the ANA VP this weekend in Indianapolis. She says that the ANA is NOT working with eBay about policing the auctions.

That's odd. I have heard and seen a number of indications to the contrary.
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DC Dawg

DC Dawg

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I spoke with the ANA VP this weekend in Indianapolis. She says that the ANA is NOT working with eBay about policing the auctions.

That's odd. I have heard and seen a number of indications to the contrary.

Mark, I think the confusion is how Ebay words their statements. On the page "Code of Conduct" for Selling Coins and Paper Money on Ebay, it opens by saying:

 

"eBay has worked with the American Numismatic Association (ANA) to help improve overall trading safety within the Coins category on eBay." Which is later followed by: "Failure to do so could result in disciplinary action by eBay and possible suspension or loss of selling privileges. In addition, such failure may be grounds for further disciplinary action by the ANA against its members."

 

Even on their Selling Currency help page, it does not say the ANA is helping with enforcement.

 

It sounds that Ebay is trying to use the mention of the ANA as an enforcement vehicle without properly clarifying the roles.

 

Then again, you have people like this banana who uses his posts to provide commentary on eBay policies!! :banana:

 

Scott :hi:

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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I now have what I consider to be legal proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) from more than one source that Ebay seller trdwayne has been removing mint-marks from coins and selling them as scarce or rare P-mint (non mint-marked) issues. See here for his Ebay profile: [url= http://myworld.ebay.com/trdwayne/][/url]

 

I have contacted Ebay and plan to contact the secret service as well. Who else, if anyone should be notified?

 

Thanks.

Mark, what do you mean by "legal proof"? Are you using that phrase colloquially? I ask because I'm not sure it's illegal to remove a mintmark from a coin.

 

Ok .. Then at least it is Fraud??

Bruce, I think it would legally be fraud to sell the altered coin as something it was not. But if I take a quarter out of my pocket, scrape off the mintmark and then spend it, I don't think there are any legal ramifications.

 

It's all beside the point of course. If some sleazebag is selling altered coins, I want to see him go down!

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