Coinfest And The CAC In CT

[TomB]

Today was the first day of public participation for the new Coinfest show in CT. The day went well, but was not without its glitches. I arrived at the facility during light rain at 10:15 AM for the 10:00 AM opening, but there was essentially no parking available. The single, small parking lot across from the facility was already packed with cars and maneuvering through the parking lot was essentially impossible since it was a series of eight or nine short rows that each ended in a dead end without a turnaround area. Therefore, lots of folks were backing up in the rain to get out of the rows and then out of the lot. I spend 10:15 AM to 10:35 AM simply getting out of this small lot before I found a tiny parking area behind the facility and parked there.

 

Upon entering, one was to register by providing a full name and address, but I told the people at the registration table that I would not provide this information and they allowed me onto the bourse floor anyway. I put the large nametag sticker on one of my loupes and never bothered to wear it as directed. Within five minutes of walking the bourse floor the Fire Marshal had ordered everyone, except for dealers, out of the main bourse floor. Shortly thereafter we were all told to leave the building completely and asked to stand in the rain or under the small overhang for five-to-ten minutes. Apparently, the floor plan layout called for a dealer table to block one of the exits and the Fire Marshal would not allow the show to resume until the table was removed. Dealers were allowed to remain with their tables during this time.

 

The bourse itself was split between two rooms and the larger room had a roof leakage problem that resulted in at least three puddles of water on the hardwood floor and one large trash can to catch water behind a dealer table. I overheard one man mention that he fell on the wood floor where one of these puddles had accumulated. The aisles were generally wide enough to walk easily, even with many other folks in attendance, and the lighting was generally good. Additionally, the limited onsite menu of meatball sandwiches, chicken sandwiches, sausage sandwiches and soup was far superior to most coin show menus and was not that expensive.

 

I was able to chat at length with forum members njcoincrank, MrEureka, roadrunner, ColonialCoinUnion, CoinRaritiesOnline, Julian, CTCollector1, orville, cape, caitlin, sToner and MikeKing. The show was good for selling, in my opinion, and the material on the floor appeared slightly different than many recent shows I have attended. That is, there was a bit less dreck while some truly nice pieces were floating around. Morgan dollars and early copper seemed to be available readily, nicely toned Roosevelts and Washingtons appear to be making a small comeback from their recent state, Lincoln cents with color look to be wildly overpriced by some dealers, raw gold was abundant and high end Seated coinage was also available. Oddly, Legend had a near complete set of Washington quarters for sale, which shocked me to no end. George was gracious enough to allow me to inspect a few of the more choice pieces in the collection while Laura was busy with other folks. An Erie Canal medal in PF64(?) was on the floor along with its original leather box, which was quite cool to see, as was a uniface Fraser Lincoln cent pattern/proposal and the portrait of Lincoln was very rugged and full of vigor. Roadrunner brought some Seated coinage to share that would make most folks faint and also had an odd and interesting circulated Seated quarter for inspection. John and Dave of CRO were quite busy, or at least I blocked their table with MikeKing, whom I nearly literally bumped into in the Men's room, for enough time to make them appear to be quite busy. Sorry, John and Dave. They had some exceptional pieces and had sold some pieces that I was hoping to inspect in-hand. CTCollector1 shared a few outstanding pieces, as did MikeKing, and it was quite cool to see such high end collections that had little overlap with one another. MikeKing and I also spent time with former ANA Governor Michael Fey discussing coins and food. My lunch was a rather tasty meatball sandwich, albeit one without salt packets, and one that I can still taste at this moment.

 

The CAC had a table and was very low key. A simple pamphlet on top of an empty display case announced their arrival. I had tossed the idea of submitting some coins for inspection to the CAC since they were offering up to 20 coins per collector for free on-site analysis, but declined the generous offer. The CAC stickers are small, green stickers with a hologram of CAC on them and they look like slightly squished footballs. They are placed on the front of the slab with some care, but the reverse of the slabs have a nearly 2x2 mylar pouch taped onto them with a red CAC insert in the pouch. If one wanted to keep the reverse CAC pouch on the slab then one would block the view of the reverse of the coin. In order to see the reverse of the coin one would have to bend the CAC pouch out of the way. This made the slabs somewhat cumbersome after a successful CAC sticker submission. Additionally, the taped CAC mylar pouch looks as though it might tear away the NGC or PCGS hologram that is put on the slab if removed. This was unexpected. I was able to inspect perhaps 50-60 CAC submitted coins and came away somewhat concerned about the venture. A high percentage of those coins submitted by others and later viewed by me were accepted for the green CAC sticker, perhaps 90% had the desired, green CAC sticker. However, I did not agree with all of their decisions. That is, I thought some coins that successfully earned a sticker were not PQ for the grade and even thought a few were overgraded while one or two that failed to earn the coveted green sticker appeared quite nice. It is certainly possible that I missed a flaw on the failed coins, but those coins that earned the green CAC sticker and that really looked to be maxed out made me scratch my head. This experience made me keep my coins without submitting any to the CAC. In my opinion, it might be quite dangerous to start culling a collection without fully understanding why a coin does not receive the CAC sticker. It may also be a tricky matter to attempt to justify a failed sticker submission or to divine the thought process of the CAC for those inclined to need to know the reason for every failed CAC sticker attempt. Similarly, it might be even more dangerous to limit purchases of coins to those that have been given the green sticker from CAC since I have seen in person coins that I believe are overgraded, but that have received the CAC sticker. My own feeling is that I will proceed with caution as far as the CAC is concerned, though I like very much what I believe they are attempting to stand for in the hobby.

 

Overall, I had a great time, spoke with some terrific folks, examined some truly amazing coins and exonumia and believe the show went well.

 

[kryptonitecomics]

Nice thorough report Tom.....good job!!! (thumbs u

[leeg]

Thanks Tom for your outstanding observations. Great read as usual!!

[James_OldeTowne]

A very fine coin show report. Thank you!

[IGWT]

Great report, Tom. Thank you. I especially like reading about your perspective on CAC. I have to give CAC a little more thought . . . my skepticism has grown with implementation of the plan even though (and maybe because) the implications are still not clear to me.

[carson city]

This too shall pass----gimel, zayin, yud !

[MikeKing]

Great report, Tom. I hope you're not talking about 'my' coins now....

[TomB]

Howdy Mike. It was good to see you again and please keep in mind that I looked at coins from several submissions.

[MAULEMALL]

Oddly, Legend had a near complete set of Washington quarters for sale, which shocked me to no end. George was gracious enough to allow me to inspect a few of the more choice pieces in the collection while Laura was busy with other folks.

Thanks for the report Tom..

 

Did Legend have any stickered coins?

[carson city]

I wonder if Legends will have ALL their coins stickered ? Hmmmmm !

[MikeKing]

Oddly, Legend had a near complete set of Washington quarters for sale, which shocked me to no end. George was gracious enough to allow me to inspect a few of the more choice pieces in the collection while Laura was busy with other folks.

Thanks for the report Tom..

 

Did Legend have any stickered coins?

 

I think I saw like one or two, but I could be wrong, just can't remember.

[TomB]

I agree with Mike in that I think I noticed one Morgan dollar with a CAC sticker on it at Laura's table, but I could be wrong on this point.

[TomB]

My thread regarding this show on the PCGS site, which was identical to this thread, was removed by the PCGS moderators. Therefore, I have posted an edited thread on the PCGS site and have mentioned to folks that they might come here to read the details. If NGC acts like PCGS on this matter, and I have no clue if they will, then this thread may disappear, too.

[mark]

Tom:

 

I did, indeed, come over here to read your post. It seems bizarre to me that PCGS removed your thread. Your post seems purely informational. Were there other posts in the thread that were less...shall, we say "information"?

 

Mark

[TomB]

Howdy Mark. I'm glad to see at least one person clicked their mouse to get here. I had seen the thread shortly before it was removed by PCGS and there were about 25-30 replies, however, they were neither anti-PCGS nor were they pro-CAC. This is why I found it odd that the thread was removed.

[Tradedollarnut]

I wonder if Legends will have ALL their coins stickered ? Hmmmmm !

 

Who is 'Legends'? If you're gonna be an arse and make insinuations, at least get the company's name correct. Troll.

[EZ_E]

If NGC acts like PCGS on this matter, and I have no clue if they will, then this thread may disappear, too.

 

I've spent very little time ATS and only know the politics when they are mentioned here. I can say with 100% conviction, however, that the moderators on the NGC boards have always been tolerant to opinions and POV's concerning our hobby. With the exception of the microchip NGC had implanted in TomB, I have never witnessed big-brother, strong-arm tactics being employed here!

[Dcoin]

The show went more smoothly today (Sunday). Tom was right, there were some outstanding coins out there. One that made my mouth water was a 1909-S VDB MS66RD that looked like it had been struck this morning.

 

An interesting note, the unique 1870s half dime did have a CAC sticker, and Legend had one coin that I saw with a sticker. The Washington set that Tom referred to was a real highlight. I can't imagine how long it would take to find such nicely toned coins to complete the set. I didn't have the nerve to ask for a price.

 

Personally I got to fill three tough holes in my Buffalo set and had some of the best coinshow coffee ever!

 

[CTcollector1]

Tom - great post and thanks for the hook up on the Oregon...

 

Regarding CAC stickers on dealer coins - I don't recall seeing any and I must of cruised the floor ten times.

 

Regarding Legend's washington quarters, the set was amazing - very balanced with nice color and luster on all the coins. I did notice the 32-D was missing ?

 

I did manage to have my first conversation with Laura in about 5 years. I felt it was appropriate to thank her for her efforts in getting coinfest up and running. To her credit, she deferred all the accolades to John Lerner.

 

Carson City - CAC will be around for a while, so get used to it.

 

 

[TomB]

That would be terrific if you purchased the Oregon, CTc1. I thought it was a superb coin. The Washington set that Laura had on display never had the 1932-D in it, if I understood George correctly, so it was not actually a complete silver set, but was close.

[joeyuk]

I had to come over to read what was deleted as well. I was at the show today from 11 to 2 with my 9 year old son. I have to say everyone there seemed exceptionally nice considering his many questions. I purchased 2 shipwreck coins from Smythe and they really went out of their way explaining the history behind the coins. There were others who gave him coins for free or near free. His collection grew by quite a few while I found a nice set of coins to add to mine.

[SkyMan]

Thank you for the report Tom. Some good info there!

[WinstonWare]

Thanks for the report!

[Bruceswar]

That would be terrific if you purchased the Oregon, CTc1. I thought it was a superb coin. The Washington set that Laura had on display never had the 1932-D in it, if I understood George correctly, so it was not actually a complete silver set, but was close.

 

Was this set raw or slabbed?

[TomB]

It was Nick Cascio's set and was entirely slabbed by PCGS. They were a group of truly beautiful, toned Washingtons.

[Conder101]

An interesting note, the unique 1870s half dime did have a CAC sticker,

As if it needed, or deserved it. I forget , what grade are they calling that AU coin now MS-62, 63 or 64? And now it ha a CAC sticker for accuracy to go with it. So we have the assurance that it is correctly overgraded.

 

Tom, I saw you post ATS but didn't reply. (I have an alt over there but haven't posted openly since Aug 1.) I'm surprised it got pulled because there was really nothing controversial about it, but PCGS seems to feel threatened by CAC. I doubt if it will get pulled here. NGC seems to be much more secure and isn't prone to strike out at imagined threats.

[zrlevin]

Nice Report, Tom!!!

 

Did you buy anything?

[Scarsdale Coin]

Not sure if posting prices is considered good etiquette on the boards, but at the risk of being rude the Cascio set is available for $115,000 from Legend and while probably a strech for the average collector, certainly fairly priced for what is a lovely collection of coins... Nick has we all know has certainly had his share of nice sets over the years...

[TomB]

Howdy Jon. As long as Laura doesn't care if you post the price then I doubt anyone else will care, either. Nick's set was superb and I wish I could have examined more coins from it. However, George and Laura were clearly busy and there was no legitimate chance that I would have bought the set, so I backed off.

[hoard]

Thanks for the report. I had it in my schedule to attend but I forgot my wife was going to Florida with her sisters for the weekend and I got the kids.