CAC website up

[MikeInFL]

www.caccoin.com

[gmarguli]

No modern coins! Then how will I know that my state quarters are PQ or not? Very elitist!

 

As for their web site, they have a LONG way to go before making that public. Looks like it was made by one of their members. It needs a major upgrade for them to be taken seriously.

[JamminJ]

Does it say anything like "you bottom feeders are too damn stupid to know a good coin so you must pay us a vig to learn!"?

[TomB]

That pretty much looks like the pamphlet they had up at the Coin Fest show in CT today.

[MikeKing]

I didn't intend to, but when I was looking for Tom B at the show today, I was told he was last seen at the CAC table (I don't want to taint his pristine image as a collector so will quality that he was NOT submitting his coins for evaluation). So when I happened by their table, he wasn't there, and I started talking to Mr. Albanese himself, which was something I've always looked forward to doing, and decided, what the hell, let me submit what I brought to the show. In retrospect, I should have brought a full 20 coins, since that is what I believe they were doing for free, but I had only 12, all different grades, pcgs and ngc, and three of those coins I wanted to sell to cover a recent tax burden.

 

I was surprised with the results, and for reasons I won't go into right now, I might expand on this in a later thread or maybe this one. But, the ONE coin I felt certain would earn the CAC label, didn't get it (a pcgs 63).. All the others did. So, of course, I was happy. I was happy that an XF 40 was treated as well as an MS63...which was a question I had. In fact, my XF40, I think, is a lovely coin, poo pooed by a few dealers I've shown it to but that doesn't bother me because they are not as expert in Bust Half material as they may think they are, they've just got bigger pockets than i do. For those here that are curious for factual information, the XF 40 I'm talking about was an 1827 curled base 2 that I posted on here previously. I'm amazed at how well my classic head gold did, but I'm beginning to realize that comparing Bust Halves to gold coins is like comparing apples to oranges and I just don't know much about gold. Plain and simple. Just lucky enough to have purchased a few nice pieces.

 

The CAC label didn't help me sell my gold however, and that was a real downer, as I needed the money, but just wasn't given the break. They are indeed fine coins, particularly the US Assay piece. But when you sell, you find, sometimes, you are alone in your belief in the quality of your coin. Just the way the business is. Very much like when I used to buy and sell violins. Only it was a lot worse, so I'm not complaining.

 

What does me off was any comment given to me that tried to subterfuge my expertise by any particular dealer. Much like the Violin industry, when years ago, I bought and sold Italian Violins and French Bows. But again, it's whether or not you have a reasonable or unreasonable expectation of the dealer you are dealing with. I used to tell my medical students that they should have a diagnosis within 5 minutes of entering a patient's room. The ones that understood that, you could tell, by the gleam in their eye.

 

I've post here previously about a dealer who really shortchanged me. My fault. But recieved uneccesary criticism from some board members that was totally inappropriate. I had that post pulled, for the sake of the dealer, who was offended, but in retrospect, I shoudn't have pulled it at all. I recieved literally a dozen emails privately from people who felt similarly, but weren't of the opinion to post their statements publically.

 

Perhaps I'm getting a bit on the defensive here, but that's just what came out of my mouth and that's whats staying here...and I'm sticking with my story.

 

As far as the one coin that didn't get the CAC stamp of approval, I can't figure out why. I'll try contacting them to see if I can get an explanation...there's always room for learning.

 

And I also realize, that just because 11/12 of my coins got that stamp of 'approval' it doesn't mean that ANY of my other coins would be treated similarly, so I can't render any judgement on the process...a curious one indeed, because it's so new and so controversial.

 

 

[Houston Investor]

They may get some business from a few elitist, rich collectors. Their fees are much more expensive than a grading service! I think I will spend that money on gold and silver bullion coins!

 

Quite frankly, I have no interest in using them (CAC) nor do I have the kind of material that would need their services or justify their expensive fees (plus a 15% dealer service charge?). Now this may be chump change for the guy that has a large inventory of expensive coins $2500 and up. So good for him if the CAC label helps his sales. Perhaps a CAC label will be to expensive certified coins what Crown Royal is to bourbon. My GF (she is 29, been seeing her since Dec 2006) tells me she would rather spend the $2500 on Crown Royal than a coin - now she's a smart lady that knows value!

 

I currently offer blue sheet bid on certified coins (I would have a use for) offered to me at my table at shows whether they would have a CAC label or not. The vast majority of these coins are in the $300 range and under.

[michael]

great results from cac mike king!! let me ask you what kind of cac stickers did you get???

 

solid for the grade/properly graded B stickers

 

OR.......................................

 

possible upgrade/high end for the grade A stickers????????????

 

also what was the buzz from the floor of this new love fest??

 

was business booming for scarce and great eye appeal classic coinage of all grades and types??

 

or

 

 

[rbrown4]

Mike

 

Thanks for the first hand experience of this new endeavor. Am very interested in hearing more as you learn more perhaps on the one that didn't and the future of the others.

 

Rey

[jesbroken]

Thanks, Mike for the info. How about a photo of the CAC sticker-as I will never have one, I wonder what they look like.

[123cents]

Great read. Thanks Mike.

[MikeKing]

great results from cac mike king!! let me ask you what kind of cac stickers did you get???

 

solid for the grade/properly graded B stickers

 

OR.......................................

 

possible upgrade/high end for the grade A stickers????????????

 

also what was the buzz from the floor of this new love fest??

 

was business booming for scarce and great eye appeal classic coinage of all grades and types??

 

or

 

Frankly Michael, I didn't know there were B and A stickers, so I'll go back and have to look.

I didn't hear much buzz on the floor about it, but I'm kind of in my own world when I'm at a place like that and generally don't know what the hell is going on.

My sense is that some dealers did well (Ill let them speak for themselves), Some dealers complained to me things were so so, that there was less dealer to dealer activity. But it was a smaller endeavor that the Milwaukee thing, and I would hope built up becuase Connecticut needs more influx of coins like this, and there's a hell of a lot of money in Connecticut to go around and keep everyone happy. They've just got to get it going (the dealers) and not give up on a place like that. Especially having the show in Greenwich, I mean, how close to Martha Stewart can you get. I'm sure a group of them could have made it to her program to discuss nice colonial and civil war coinage and stimulated a lot of money floating into that place. But I doubt they did. I myself didn't buy one coin. I might have purchase d a DMPL from legend, but they basically ignored me when I was at the table, so I didn't end up with one. Too bad. I don't know why they don't look up, smile and say 'can we help you with anything' when you're obviously gawking at thier DMPL's. Well...what can I say...I can just give you the facts.

 

Feeling welcome , being made to feel welcome by a dealer is something that requires either very early training by parents or very later learning thru failure and the need for success. I'm amazed at how many dealers are unfriendly. It really doesn't take much. Or does it? Maybe it's just too much for some of them to handle? They'd double their business if they were friendlier, I can almost guarantee that.

[michael]

thanks for the report mike

 

i see over at sleezebay there is a common merc in ms64 in a pcgs slab that is being hawked by the seller with the new cac sticker on it. up already by later afternoon sat right after coin fest

 

sleezebay you gotta love it

 

 

[carson city]

This too shall pass----gimel, zayin, yud !

[kryptonitecomics]

Ebay: CAC stickered Mercury Dime

 

 

For those that are curious what the stickers look like......

[jackson64]

I know that I never will, but since that sticker is just stuck on the outside of the holder really makes it easy to have my own made with a simple "bumper sticker maker" or just move the sticker that says "coin is undergraded or PQ" from a common date merc to a coin that jumps $2-3K at the next grade level. This idea is rife with forgery potential and I don't think it will have any value as such.

 

Also, they are pricing themselves out of the moderns market. A perfect 70 won't need their sticker obviously, and 69's for the most part, don't even sell for what the slabbing/grading costs. A service strictly for high end coins--which makes the likelihood of fraud and sticker forgery much more likely....

 

Just a bad idea and poorly implemented...

 

One other thing are all of the stickers going to be that big? it covers up most of the reverse design? Why buy a coin if you can't even see it?

[Houston Investor]

Ebay: CAC stickered Mercury Dime

 

 

For those that are curious what the stickers look like......

 

Are you sure this is a real CAC sticker on this coin? This has got to be some kind of joke - the sticker obscures the coin! People would pay good money for this garbage on their slabs, let alone a premium? This is even more insane than I originally envisioned. In addition, the coin in this auction is grossly overpriced - the PCGS price guide lists a 1945 10c in MS 64 at $17 (current market retail).

So the seller is betting some fool will pay almost 5 times market retail for a coin simply because it is CAC stickered?

[MikeKing]

CAC keeps a data bank that you will be able to connect to so you will know whether or not the sticker is original to the coin.

 

[TomB]

Parker, that is the style of the stickers. I saw these in-hand at the Coinfest show yesterday.

[Tradedollarnut]

There's no such thing as an 'A' sticker or 'B' sticker - both coins receive the same sticker. The PQ coins that CAC is identifying are solid for the grade or better. It's a sad reflection on amount of dregs on the coin market that this definition is required.

 

For what it's worth, JA stated that he viewed appx 1,000 coins as of the afternoon and a good 75-80% were stickered. 4 coins were upgrades. He stated that collectors as a whole have better coins than dealers and also chose their best coins because of the 20 coin limit.

 

The big red card on the reverse is informational only and is meant to be removed by the owner of the coin.

 

Parker - we already know you deal in the dregs and have no use for CAC, crawl back under your rock.

[MarkFeld]

I know that I never will, but since that sticker is just stuck on the outside of the holder really makes it easy to have my own made with a simple "bumper sticker maker" or just move the sticker that says "coin is undergraded or PQ" from a common date merc to a coin that jumps $2-3K at the next grade level. This idea is rife with forgery potential and I don't think it will have any value as such.

 

Also, they are pricing themselves out of the moderns market. A perfect 70 won't need their sticker obviously, and 69's for the most part, don't even sell for what the slabbing/grading costs. A service strictly for high end coins--which makes the likelihood of fraud and sticker forgery much more likely....

 

Just a bad idea and poorly implemented...

 

One other thing are all of the stickers going to be that big? it covers up most of the reverse design? Why buy a coin if you can't even see it?

The large red tag shown in the Ebay listing which is covering up the reverse of the coin is NOT the permanent CAC sticker.

 

[MAULEMALL]

I know that I never will, but since that sticker is just stuck on the outside of the holder really makes it easy to have my own made with a simple "bumper sticker maker" or just move the sticker that says "coin is undergraded or PQ" from a common date merc to a coin that jumps $2-3K at the next grade level. This idea is rife with forgery potential and I don't think it will have any value as such.

 

Also, they are pricing themselves out of the moderns market. A perfect 70 won't need their sticker obviously, and 69's for the most part, don't even sell for what the slabbing/grading costs. A service strictly for high end coins--which makes the likelihood of fraud and sticker forgery much more likely....

 

Just a bad idea and poorly implemented...

 

One other thing are all of the stickers going to be that big? it covers up most of the reverse design? Why buy a coin if you can't even see it?

The large red tag shown in the Ebay listing which is covering up the reverse of the coin is NOT the permanent CAC sticker.

Mark, Maybe you should contact the seller of the dime so that he can clear up the confusion...

 

And also might put a blurb as to what the sticker actually looks like on the website..

 

[goose3]

Parker - we already know you deal in the dregs and have no use for CAC, crawl back under your rock.

 

 

 

 

Could you or someone from the CAC explain what is so special about a PCGS MS64 1945 Mercury dime that would warrant it obtaining a sticker?

 

Does that now mean that should be a 27.00 coin instead of a 17.00 one simply because it has a green sticker?

 

I'm not trying to knock the owner of the dime but honestly thought it was going to be reserved for non widget coins.

 

Edited because I was not even aware that dime that was being shown elsewhere was up for auction. That's some funny stuff. Hype at it's best!!!! Maybe the owner of the dime should be knocked.

[Tradedollarnut]

So you're saying that CAC should be elitist and make its own determination of what's worthy to be submitted or not? Hmmmm.

[goose3]

so it's ok for someone to use the sticker to promote a common dime and tout the CAC and sell it to some unsuspecting buyer that is going to assume the coin IS worth more because you stickered it?

 

I thought that was what the entire premise of the sticker was out to prevent?

 

 

I guess what I'm asking now is...

 

Does the CAC condone such a listing?

[goose3]

Parker - we already know you deal in the dregs and have no use for CAC, crawl back under your rock.

 

that's not elitist now is it....or maybe I just missed the winking emoticon.

[Tradedollarnut]

Parker - we already know you deal in the dregs and have no use for CAC, crawl back under your rock.

 

that's not elitist now is it....or maybe I just missed the winking emoticon.

 

No winky at all with Parker involved.

 

Read into that all you want.

[goose3]

so, does the CAC condone a seller getting a run of the mill every day common 10.00 dime labelled and then hyping it up on ebay and attempting to sell it for many times it's worth, using the CAC in the process?

[MarkFeld]

I know that I never will, but since that sticker is just stuck on the outside of the holder really makes it easy to have my own made with a simple "bumper sticker maker" or just move the sticker that says "coin is undergraded or PQ" from a common date merc to a coin that jumps $2-3K at the next grade level. This idea is rife with forgery potential and I don't think it will have any value as such.

 

Also, they are pricing themselves out of the moderns market. A perfect 70 won't need their sticker obviously, and 69's for the most part, don't even sell for what the slabbing/grading costs. A service strictly for high end coins--which makes the likelihood of fraud and sticker forgery much more likely....

 

Just a bad idea and poorly implemented...

 

One other thing are all of the stickers going to be that big? it covers up most of the reverse design? Why buy a coin if you can't even see it?

The large red tag shown in the Ebay listing which is covering up the reverse of the coin is NOT the permanent CAC sticker.

Mark, Maybe you should contact the seller of the dime so that he can clear up the confusion...

 

And also might put a blurb as to what the sticker actually looks like on the website..

Patrick, I contacted the Ebay seller but he didn't seem to care that his image/listing might be causing some confusion. The actual/permanent CAC sticker can be seen on the front of the holder in the image, however.

[MarkFeld]

Parker - we already know you deal in the dregs and have no use for CAC, crawl back under your rock.

 

 

 

 

Could you or someone from the CAC explain what is so special about a PCGS MS64 1945 Mercury dime that would warrant it obtaining a sticker?

 

because it has a green sticker?Does that now mean that should be a 27.00 coin instead of a 17.00 one simply

 

I'm not trying to knock the owner of the dime but honestly thought it was going to be reserved for non widget coins.

 

Edited because I was not even aware that dime that was being shown elsewhere was up for auction. That's some funny stuff. Hype at it's best!!!! Maybe the owner of the dime should be knocked.

Hi John. The person who originally submitted the 1945 dime to PCGS presumably paid a fee to do so. I wouldn't submit such a coin for grading, but that was his right/choice. The person who got it stickered by CAC likely paid no fee.

 

Many posters on the PCGS and NGC forums wrongly thought and complained that CAC would only be evaluating rare/valuable coins in an elitist fashion. Are you now complaining that they reviewed a low value coin? All Mercury Dimes are eligible for evaluation - it is up to the owners of the coins whether they wish to have CAC review them.

 

because it has a green sticker?Does that now mean that should be a 27.00 coin instead of a 17.00 one simply

Not to me, it shouldn't.

[gmarguli]

because it has a green sticker?Does that now mean that should be a 27.00 coin instead of a 17.00 one simply

Not to me, it shouldn't.

 

What about the supposed higher sight-unseen bid levels for CAC blessed coins? Can't this seller contact you or Legend and get a higher selling price for this coin since it is so average or better?