'rare' coins...

[McKinley-migration]

if i can find an 1893 S Morgan, or a 1909 S VDB, 16D merc, etc etc etc.. at any given moment, from multiple outlets.. is it really rare? granted there are only so many out there, but still. it's just a matter of cash.

 

i can see how back in the day (pre-internet) running into a 93S would've been something special.. but things have changed.. see what i'm getting at? will it always be this way with the traditional 'rare coins'?

 

just thinking out loud, onto a message board i guess.. what do ya think.

 

this could be one of my dumbest posts, but it could provoke a conversation.. let it ride

 

 

 

-- i've been looking for red 23s, 24s, & 25s lincolns for a long time now.. they never come up. those are a million times rarer to me. just 3 lil' examples..

 

 

[robec1347]

-- i've been looking for red 23s, 24s, & 25s lincolns for a long time now.. they never come up. those are a million times rarer to me. just 3 lil' examples..

 

 

How many '09 VDB proofs of any color have you seen for sale .....anywhere??

[cpm9ball]

There were only 100,000 of the 93-S struck, but we have no idea if any of them were melted as a result of the Pittman Act since no records were kept. Sure, you can often find them in lower grades, but how often do you see one in 64, 65, 66 or 67? True, you can't say that it would be a one-in-a-million coin because they didn't make that many.

 

It's also interesting to note that the mintage of the 80-CC, Reverse of 78 is estimated at only 125,000, and the 80-CC, Reverse of 79 is estimated at only 360,000.

 

Chris

[McKinley-migration]

How many '09 VDB proofs of any color have you seen for sale .....anywhere??

.

zero, and i watch that stuff.

 

those matte's are out of control.. if a VDB went up it'd go for 4 times what price guides say they're worth. 'rare personified'

[McKinley-migration]

There were only 100,000 of the 93-S struck, but we have no idea if any of them were melted as a result of the Pittman Act since no records were kept. Sure, you can often find them in lower grades, but how often do you see one in 64, 65, 66 or 67?

 

well yeah the BU's $200K+ tags are justified. but $3k++ for coins that are everywhere don't seem to be anymore.. to me at least.. tonight anyway

 

[realone]

If my memory serves me I just recently heard of a small hoard of 1893-s' just being discovered besides the rumor mill of other hoards of the same. I personally do not believe the prices paid for 1893-s is justified, but this is just one collector's opinion. Any way the problem with hoards small or large is how will we ever really know the truth, because the truth can hurt the value in this case and we all know how gread and not truth rules.

[Zoins]

R2 on the rarity scale means 501-1250 exist.

R1 on the rarity scale means over 1250 exist.

 

I'd probably cap R1 at 5000 and consider higher numbers as "scarce" instead of "rare."

 

The 1893 S Morgan isn't rare, but some grades can be considered "condition rarities."

[cpm9ball]

If my memory serves me I just recently heard of a small hoard of 1893-s' just being discovered besides the rumor mill of other hoards of the same. I personally do not believe the prices paid for 1893-s is justified, but this is just one collector's opinion. Any way the problem with hoards small or large is how will we ever really know the truth, because the truth can hurt the value in this case and we all know how gread and not truth rules.

 

There is no doubt that if a recently discovered hoard were to be released all at once, the value for rarity would probably drop. If anyone did have a hoard of (say) the 93-S, they would be out of their mind if they tried to sell them in one release. If that person didn't need the funds immediately, he/she would be better served to release just one every 5-10 years so as not to affect the value too much. The person could even place a codicil in their will with the same instructions so that any still remaining after their death would be released in the same manner for the benefit of any heirs.

 

Personally, I would love to see a hoard of 1,000-5,000 BU 93-S released all at the same time. Perhaps then, I would only need $50K to buy an MS63. :takeit: Yeah, right!

 

Chris

[TomB]

You can nearly always run into multiple 1893-S Morgans on the bourse of most major shows and you don't need the internet to find these pieces. They, along with the 1909-S VDB, 1916-D Merc, 1916 SLQ, 1932-D and 1932-S Washington quarters and low grade 1901-S Barber quarter are likely the most common "rare" coins one will find.

 

The analogy to the red 1924-S, 1925-S and 1926-S Lincolns, however, is somewhat flawed in that you have put two qualifiers on the Lincolns that have not been put into place on the other coins. The first is that the Lincolns be of a RD designation and the second is that they be high enough in grade so as to warrant the designation. These qualifiers were not put on the other coins, which changes the dynamic because if you are looking for any grade 1924-S, 1925-S or 1926-S Lincoln they then become much more common.

[Zoins]

Good point Tom (thumbs u

[shirohniichan]

Yes, it's a comparison of absolute rarity with condition rarity.

[World Colonial]

For the most part, rarity is a function of relative scarcity. And no, I would not consider the coins you listed as "rare" except as conditional rarities.

 

Your point about the internet is also a valid one. A collector should be able to find almost any US coin in a major auction or on a dealer website though it may not have the right eye appeal for them.

 

Though I will never have the collection he did, I agree with John J. Ford's sentiments. If you can find a coin anytime in dealer stock by picking up the phone (or looking on the internet or in an auction), then no, that coin is not rare. By that definition most coins are either common or at least widely available.

[World Colonial]

If my memory serves me I just recently heard of a small hoard of 1893-s' just being discovered besides the rumor mill of other hoards of the same. I personally do not believe the prices paid for 1893-s is justified, but this is just one collector's opinion. Any way the problem with hoards small or large is how will we ever really know the truth, because the truth can hurt the value in this case and we all know how gread and not truth rules.

 

What turns out to be a hoard coin can be surprising sometimes. If you take a look on the NGC census, there are over 300 hundred coins listed for the 1754 Mexico Pillar 8R and most of them are mint state (60-62). I am not aware that a hoard of these coins has been found but it must have. There are also about 30 and 20 of the 1754 and 1755 Peru Pillar 8R, also in mint state. High grade Mexico Pillar 8R are frequently available as a type coin but most individual dates are not common or apparently so. Peru is normally hard to find.

[BillJones]

Most of what we collect is not “rare” in the true sense. Items like the 1893-S dollar, the 1909-S-VDB cent and just about any other “rare” date you can name that regularly finds its way into collections or sets is not “rare.”

 

According to the Sheldon rarity scale, “rare” begins at R-5, which translates into 31 to 75 pieces known in all grades from Poor-1 to MS-70. This type of rarity is most often defined in terms of die varieties of which well over 300 are known in the large cent series from 1793 to 1814.

 

The number of dated coins that could be considered rare is fairly limited. It gets even more limited when you eliminate the "made rare for reason stuff" like the 1913 Liberty nickels and the 1804 silver dollars. To me a true rarity like 1802 half dime (45 or so known) or the 1822 half eagle (3 known) are truly impressive. Their rarity was accidental.

 

I do own some pieces that "rare" by the Sheldon definition, but they off the beaten path. The include things like tokens and political medalets, which put the average collector to sleep.

[MikeKing]

I think this is an excellent post.

I would call an R5 very scarce.

To me, and this is just my opinion, rare is only if there are 1,2,3 or maybe even 4 or 5 in existence in any grade.

Rare, is an overused and abused term in numismatics.

 

edited to add: A Stradivarius is not even rare. Scarce, yes, million dollar price tag, yes, but not rare.

[World Colonial]

Yes, agreed. And there is also a difference between rarity or scarcity and availability. For some reason, some coins that might be equally scarce come up for sale at much higher or lower intervals.

 

The 1796/1797 Half dollars supposedly have as many as 300 surviving specimens. The 1796 half cent had a mintage of 1390 (I believe) which is about a third of the other type, yet I almost never see it come up sale.

 

Then there are rare coins like the 1804 Dollar or 1913 LH Nickel which seem to come up for sale every few years. So you could possibly buy one if you had the money. On the other hand, the original CSA half dollar (one of the most historic coins ever in my opinion) I have seen only once.