Long Beach Report from a "dealer"

[gmarguli]

My version of the Long Beach show report…

 

I went on Thursday and Saturday. Met the usual and some new forum members such as claw, MrLee, Mikey, NuckelHead, MissJenn, gsaguy, tonekiller, jbstevens, rkkay, JamminJ, mdwoods, MarkFeld, TruthTeller, jom, wondercoin and his son Justin, Nick Casio (who bought us lunch - thanks!), cameocc, bear, Mike Printz, rkfish, PQPeace, strat, KeifersCoins, EVP, braddick, and I’m sure a dozen others that I am drawing a blank on right now.

 

Thanks to a very nice dealer who added me to his table, I was able to get a dealer badge and enter the show early and walk the floor pretending to be an actual dealer.

 

The badge was great. Unlike the other picture badges that said “early entry”, this one actually said “exhibitor”. The dealers were quick to offer discounts without asking. Discounts were sizeable. One dealer offered me a coin at $900 that he offered a friend at $1100. I passed. It was a PCI MS67 Texas with really nice yellow toning. The coin was actually solid for the grade even though it was in a PCI gold label slab. I turned it down since I didn’t like the toning enough to pay that much a premium. I got a 30% discount on some books and supplies I purchased. I noticed several dealers looking at the badge and reading it before making a quote.

 

Thursday seemed slow. One dealer made a crack that the public wasn’t exactly lined up to get in. There wasn’t a big crowd at all. Dealers were quick to discount even without asking for a discount. One dealer thought it was because the grading services were swamped with coins on Monday and Tuesday and they were so behind in grading that there wasn’t a lot of fresh coins to fill the potential demand and it just dampened the market. The grading service tables seemed dead. All the services seemed dead. I guess there wasn’t a lot of dealers looking to resubmit the pre-show coins since they were stuck in grading limbo at the services. However, that is a pure guess on my part and I have nothing to back that up.

 

Saturday, I arrived around 9:30 today hoping to get in to view the Heritage lots which I couldn’t view on Thursday because the crowd was too big at the table. I was greeted with a ton of people standing around outside the convention center and a sign that the convention center was flooded and they weren’t letting people in. This was at around 9:30 and from what people were saying a 10 foot long waterfall was raging in the center of the convention center for about 20-25 minutes.

 

The Heritage auction went on as scheduled even though people were prevented from looking at the lots. I only watched about 100 lots and the average stuff seemed to be going for average prices. A few nicer and top pop items brought strong money. I ended up not being able to see a single lot and didn’t place any bids.

 

At about 11:45 they started letting the dealers back in. The place had a smell to it. From what I saw and heard there were two dealers that had material damaged and that was it. Other dealers had some wet stuff, but no major damage. They didn’t let the public in until around 12:30. I’m sure quite a few people left rather than wait the 2.5+ hours. The show didn’t seem to crowded, but there was a good sized crowd.

 

What seemed to be selling? Dealers were reporting either a great show or an awful show. Very little dealers reporting an average show. MANY made the comment that they were big buyers at the show, but not big retail sellers. Several dealers stated they they bought big, but were NOT looking for a quick flip and that they would take it back home for stock. Nicely toned coins were selling, but there were VERY few of them and I mean VERY few. PQ coins were selling. High grade and top pop stuff was selling. I wouldn’t say stupid money was being paid. For a lot of stuff that was priced at stupid money it sat in the cases and was there at the end of Saturday. Collector coins were selling very well. Lots of dealers who had collector coins in their cases were reporting extremely strong sales.

 

Overall I think it was an extremely disappointing show. I left without having a clear idea of where the market is and is heading. There weren’t a lot of great or stunning coins there. Lots of generic stuff. Lots of white junk. Very little coins that actually make you take notice. Practically no ACG, NTC, and PCI stuff. One dealer had a bunch of SEGS. Not much ANACS stuff, but there was some.

 

On a personal level, I walked away from the show with a nice original toned 1937 Boone NGC MS65 from TruthTeller, a beautiful rainbow toned 1938-D Buffalo NGC MS66 from Texas Bullion Traders, a 1955 Franklin ICG MS64FBL also from TBT. It is the Bugs Bunny variety and it is mint set toned which is rare for this variety. Picked up maybe 30 mixed foreign coins in gem+ grades including a superb 1/2D from Peru. The best deal was the Krause world coin catalogs. Got a 19th century and a 18th century book at a deep “dealer” discount and a gallon jug of Jeweluster (no joke).

 

I saw Cameron Kiefer stealing sample slabs from the NGC table. I went over to stop him. He had the nerve to complain that the sample slab he stole didn’t have a low enough insert number. Brian Silliman was not moved by this plea. This is especially true after Cameron complained about having to join the Collectors Society in order to submit coins to NGC. However, he was nice enough to open up a new box of sample slabs and give me one with the insert of -001. Cameron followed and bugged me for quite a bit of time after this.

 

Best of all I showed a Franklin to a few people that I had purchased off a bid board for I believe $17. It’s a 1954-S and I graded it MS66FBL which is a major money coin (~$5000). David Lange said MS66 (wouldn’t make FBL at NGC due to their higher standard for the FBL designation), Mark Feld said MS65, possibly MS66 and wasn’t sure about the FBL, and David Hall (no I didn’t ask him myself, someone else did it for me) said MS65ish with a definite FBL.

 

[JamminJ]

Hi Greg,

 

Nice report, good to see you again today.

 

What do you think David Hall would have said about the Franklin if he knew its owner?

 

I read on some website somewhere that those sample slabs are very rare and desireable. Make sure you don't let one with such a low serial number go too cheap!

 

-JamminJ

 

Edited with the hope I will one day learn to spell and type.

[braddick]

Great report Greg, and worth the wait to read. I always wish I could attend two days instead of one (Thursday). I feel like I'm missing out on extra excitment for one reason or another.

 

The show, as described by Greg, was a bit disapointing COIN wise but made up for it PEOPLE wise. I've shifted from having an emphesis of seeing coins to what it is now: visiting and talking to Dealers/Collectors. As usual, Bryan Osborn had some real cool stuff and I picked up some colorfully toned Contemporary coins through him including one Franklin with the neatest sky blue and lavendar pastel toning. Also a 1974 Lincoln with the type of neon toning you would only expect to see on copper dated from the mid to late fifties.

 

Other than my debacle with ICG (unresolved at this point so I won't go into the details) I rate the show high. Again NOT because of the material on the floor but because of the wonderful people within this hobby.

 

I mean, come on. There was even one Dealer who took the time to bring a couple of his own personal coins to the show to share with me (and, they were NOT for sale at any price). This is a Dealer who markets multi-million dollar deals and for him to take the the time to show me a couple of his treasures was a real treat and reminds me again this is a terrific hobby! I'd name him (a member here) but don't want to embarrass him.

 

I was also flattered to talk with other Dealers who don't mind taking the time to share their insights and reasonings behind their logic and thinking.

 

[gmarguli]

What do you think David Hall would have said about the Franklin if he knew its owner?

 

Artificial toning or AU55. Then he'd have put a fingerprint on it.

 

 

I read on some website somewhere that those sample slabs are very rare and desireable. Make sure you don't let one with such a low serial number go too cheap!

 

I've read that too. I've seen some on eBay sell for a lot of money.

[TomB]

Thank you for sharing your experiences, both Greg and Pat.

[clw54]

This was the first time I went on two different days, Thursday and Saturday. I bought a GSA from GSAGUY on Thursday; on Saturday I didn't buy anything other than gas, parking, and food. However, I got to meet Cameron and Mikey, and witnessed the taking of a soon to be legendary photo. All that made it worthwhile.

[KIEFERSCOINS]

"I saw Cameron Kiefer stealing sample slabs from the NGC table. I went over to stop him. He had the nerve to complain that the sample slab he stole didn’t have a low enough insert number. Brian Silliman was not moved by this plea. This is especially true after Cameron complained about having to join the Collectors Society in order to submit coins to NGC. However, he was nice enough to open up a new box of sample slabs and give me one with the insert of -001. Cameron followed and bugged me for quite a bit of time after this."

 

I took one of the free samples and no more. I wasn't stealing them. Gereg is mnakign up this story about my complaint and actually gave me #1 for some free submissions when I sign up with NGC. He probably ripped me off.

 

Cameron kiefer

 

[Hoot]

Thanks for the great report! I also read that Toyonakataro was there! Long way to come for a slow show! (Hope it was worth it in the sense that Pat spoke of!)

 

Hoot

[Tonekiller-migration]

We had a great show and its was awesome as usual to meet everyone again and just talk.

 

Dealer to dealer was very strong and the retail on Friday and Saturday was good. I feel that attendance was down over all but not a disaster.

 

Of course this is only referring to buying and selling those nasty toned, tarnished, environmentally damaged color coins….

 

Bryan

[toyonakataro]

I really wanted to see you( I'm not sure if I am going to Long Beach again), but couldn't find a person who was similar to your icon...

[jbsteven1-migration]

I would say the show was pretty good for me overall. I was able to sell quite a few items and buy some as well at fair levels.

 

Good to meet all you guys from this side of the street. Some of you know but I mainly post on the other side, kinda hard to keep up with both sides of the street.

 

 

[paigow_johnny]

Oh No...jbsteven has found us on this side of the street.

 

Be careful...he'll empty your pockets quickly

 

Seriously...quality stuff and a real friendly guy...for a guy wearing a mullet

[jbsteven1-migration]

Johnny

 

thanks........I think

[CoinLes]

I missed the thread earlier but I did want to chime in that I too saw Cameron stealing not only sample slabs from NGC but supplies from dealers, pens by the handfull, toilet paper from the restrooms and some little old lady's purse. (She was outside the hall) What a kleptomaniac!

 

I was at GSAGUY's table when Claw bought his GSA Morgan (Great looking '83 btw) and found one of my own.

 

An '82-CC. I couldn't resist.

 

I had a great time and am looking forward to the next show.