A Letter from Ron Guth...interesting read.

[gmarguli]

I don't know for 100% fact, but given the quote from the then President of the company and the pathetic crossover rates, I believe it is highly probably that the true reason isn't the fact that the NGC slab prevents edge inspection.

 

FYI, old ANACS slabs prevent edge inspection, yet ANACS-to-PCGS crossovers are generally accepted as being much easier than NGC-to-PCGS. Perhaps because they don't view ANACS as true competition?

[MikeInFL]

Good points, Greg. Thanks...Mike

[TwoKopeiki]

Hi Greg, I'm not trying to start any trouble, simply looking for a source of information. Are there numbers published by both sides when it comes to cross-overs? I would love to do some data mining to get better insight into the process.

 

P.S. Don't know about other series, but there are obviuos differences between grading companies when it comes to my primary focus (Spanish Colonial / War of Independence 8 Reales), especially in the VF35-AU50 range.

 

~Roman

[gmarguli]

PCGS used to publish numbers. They stopped. I guess it got too embarrassing. I'm not sure NGC ever published numbers.

 

As for world coins, before PCGS hired Karl for their grading, they were awful. I saw coins in VF slabs that were unc, but they had no clue as to what they were looking at.

[TwoKopeiki]

Thanks, Greg. I'll do my due diligence and see what I can find.

[Houston Investor]

I have never really been much of a cross over fan in the first place unless I can see a really positive change in blue sheet value to justify the expense.

 

I do know of one fellow who cracked out 10 coins he thought he got a good deal on ebay slabbed by one of the 4th tier off brand grading services. He sent them to a major TPG and 3 came back BB, and none of the others made the original grades. So much for that good deal.

[Doogy]

PCGS used to publish numbers. They stopped. I guess it got too embarrassing. I'm not sure NGC ever published numbers.

 

As for world coins, before PCGS hired Karl for their grading, they were awful. I saw coins in VF slabs that were unc, but they had no clue as to what they were looking at.

 

yeah, i'll second that! All of my former world PCGS coins have been crossed over to NGC for that very reason. PCGS main bread-and-butter is grading US coins, and they tend to be very inconsistant in world coins. I have had several examples that were not only graded incorrectly, but had the wrong demonination or atrribution on the slab. I cross several Eliasberg world coins from PCGS over to NGC, and was happy to send the inserts back to PCGS to let them know that several primo world coins was no longer in their holders. It is no wonder that NGC is far and away the leader in world coins, and by far have the finest world coins in their holders. heck, look at the simply incredible Goldberg 'Millenia' auction coming up in early 2008; ALL of those coins are NGC, and it is already being estimated to bring in the most money of any previous world coin auciton.

 

I find it interesting that PCGS newest revelations are US coin related, and they seem to ignore the world coin segment most of the time. I guess that also is reflected in their market share of the world coin market, and they are willing to relinquish that part of the business to NGC.

 

 

[bsshog40]

Net grades: I think this is a good idea. ANACS has been doing it and doesn't seem to deter anyone from thier coins.

Cross-over: From my point of view, it would be very informative as to how PCGS grades different type coins from other TPGs.

Registry Sets: Why not, NGC does it. I would limit it to the top TPG's tho'.

Comments: I would think this would only be worthwhile for coins of certain rarity, or special history.

Premium Quality: I think this would only add to the confusion that is already in the grading market. This would probably fall right behind "under-graded and over-graded". If it's a higher end quality coin, then give it the grade that it is closest to.

[MikeKing]

Excellent points, Bobby.

[MikeKing]

If PCGS became more liberal in their crossing of NGC coins over to them at the same grade...or let's put it this way...more honest in crossing NGC coins over to them at the same or better grade, they would begin to threaten the mystique that is so essential to the drive to cross.

 

Number one.

 

Number two: I believe PCGS maintains financial market control through their grading policies, or at least is attempting to maintain control. This helps to perpetuate the mystique and improve business by having people cross over for financial gain as well as false prestige.

 

Thirdly, this explains why they won't cross certain coins, particularly when the price of that coin will triple when in the new holder.

 

At this juncture, for those who complain that NGC is too liberal in their grading, NGC grades according to the way they grade, and I have to hand it to them for not succumbing to the mystique battle, or isolating their registry (which is entirely more competitive than the PCGS registry..e.g., I rank third or fourth in the PCGS registry, but 7th or 8th in the NGC registry. Not that I care, but I am making a point. Indeed, if I crossed all my coins over to PCGS, it would instantly increase my PCGS ranking. This is ridiculous.

 

The idea, also, of having to send coins in for their stamp of approval and grade asessment, and surely having to pay a fee $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for this, just to get your NGC coins in their registry is an insult to the dignity of a collector. Or, should I say, a true collector.

 

PCGS is, among all the grading services, the least collector friendly, in my opinion. The COLLECTOR is the KING. The TPG is the serveant of the KING. The dealers are the supporters of the KING. The COLLECTOR is the whole reason for their existence, and none other. Without the COLLECTOR they'd all go down the tubes and have to figure out what else they'd do in life to make money.

 

End of story.

 

 

[rbrown4]

I agree Mike.

 

Rey