Can someone please explain to me...

[jom]

...why ANYONE would pay $12,000 for a 1938-D nickel? OR...for that matter...$29,000 for a 1937-S nickel? These were in the Heritage Sig auction this afternoon. Lot 790 and 792.

 

Is this just Registry stupidity or what? I saw both coins today at the auction viewing at Long Beach and thought they were nice. The 38-D was by FAR the nicest with a MS68* grade. The 37-S was nice and graded MS68. However, $12,000??? and nearly $30,000? Good Lord....I mean...I like Buffs but c'mon!

 

jom

[MikeInFL]

I can't explain it except to say that the winning bidders valued the coins more than their money.

 

Then again, I don't really have the means and therefore I'm not much of a conditional rarity/top-pop kind of guy, but to each his own...Mike

[WinstonWare]

Seems bizarre to me too.

[Revenant]

I'll get back to you once I understand it...

[okbustchaser]

Why would someone spend 5 million for a 1913 nickel? At this point in time the bidder wanted the coin more then he wanted the cash.

[CAP Freak]

...why ANYONE would pay $12,000 for a 1938-D nickel? OR...for that matter...$29,000 for a 1937-S nickel? These were in the Heritage Sig auction this afternoon. Lot 790 and 792.

 

Is this just Registry stupidity or what? I saw both coins today at the auction viewing at Long Beach and thought they were nice. The 38-D was by FAR the nicest with a MS68* grade. The 37-S was nice and graded MS68. However, $12,000??? and nearly $30,000? Good Lord....I mean...I like Buffs but c'mon!

 

jom

Drug Abuse?

[James_OldeTowne]

Years ago, there was an old Garfield cartoon strip that concluded with Garfield saying something like "It's amazing the things some people would rather have than money".

 

Jom, I agree with your sentiments.

[Stanley]

...why ANYONE would pay $12,000 for a 1938-D nickel? OR...for that matter...$29,000 for a 1937-S nickel? These were in the Heritage Sig auction this afternoon. Lot 790 and 792.

 

Is this just Registry stupidity or what? I saw both coins today at the auction viewing at Long Beach and thought they were nice. The 38-D was by FAR the nicest with a MS68* grade. The 37-S was nice and graded MS68. However, $12,000??? and nearly $30,000? Good Lord....I mean...I like Buffs but c'mon!

 

jom

The buyers obviously value them far more than you.

I don’t think it is a reflection of there intelligence or has anything to do with the Registry.

 

[BillJones]

...why ANYONE would pay $12,000 for a 1938-D nickel? OR...for that matter...$29,000 for a 1937-S nickel? These were in the Heritage Sig auction this afternoon. Lot 790 and 792.

 

Is this just Registry stupidity or what? I saw both coins today at the auction viewing at Long Beach and thought they were nice. The 38-D was by FAR the nicest with a MS68* grade. The 37-S was nice and graded MS68. However, $12,000??? and nearly $30,000? Good Lord....I mean...I like Buffs but c'mon!

 

jom

 

There is outside chance that it could be a ruse of some kind in which someone is trying to set a high precedent setting price to use as benchmark to rip off some retail customers. I witnessed fraudulent conducted by a major, but defunct auction house. The secession was held on a Saturday morning and the items for sale were a collection of California fractional gold pieces. There were maybe 10 people in the room.

 

When the auction began the first couple of items sold for a few hundred dollars, which as expected. Then a guy in the back of the room yelled “$4 thousand dollars!” when the high bid was $300. He kept doing this for lot after lot until he had “bought” more than 50 lots. The bid on floor was a few hundred at most, and he would bid 10 times that much and more. As soon as he did that the lots were immediately hammered down to him.

 

My view on this was that the auction house was running a scam that they could use latter. This was a period (the late 1970s) when people were buying coins like crazy, even if they knew nothing about them. Inflation was causing the value of the dollar to decline at rate of 20% a year, and people were throwing money at coins and others “things” or tangible assets. I suspect that these “auction results” would be used to show poorly informed, but eager retail buyers that these gold tokens had sold at auction for $4,000, but you could own them for “only” $3,000 as a special deal.

 

[thebeav]

Yeah, but when I pull these two nickles out while sitting at the corner tavern tonight, everybody is going to say, "Boy, those are nice !"

 

Paul

[MorganMan]

Yeah, but when I pull these two nickles out while sitting at the corner tavern tonight, everybody is going to say, "Boy, those are nice !"

 

Paul

 

Plus, you could leave one as a tip for the waitress!

 

MM

[dooly]

Of the wall bidding ?

[supertooth]

jom----- Guess my reply comes down to this. We all have a cut off price somewhere. At what grade do we reach that monetary cutoff?? Depends on what you want in life, I guess. Some guys only want the very highest MS coins that the grading services have ever graded---while others are happy with just a quality representative.

 

Take me----I just paid 2700 for an MS 65 1933S Walker. It got the "supertooth" approval as a 65. I needed the coin for my Registry Set. I liked the coin a lot. I figure it rates within the top 100 coins total---as graded by both NGC and PCGS combined. Would I have paid a higher price for one of those 100 coins that graded a 66?? Probably not. Will others? Probably.

 

If someone came along and offered me a 1921D Walker in that same MS65 grade----and it met my standards---what would I pay for that one? Certainly more than the 2700 that I paid for the 33S coin. But how much more?? Two thousand---Four Thousand---Six Thousand?? At some point there would be a cut off price. Yet a guy who collected Merc Dimes wouldn't even be interested in the coin---unless he could get a 'rip'.

 

So, I guess that it all depends on what you want out of your collection. It could mean that you WOULD spend foolish money for something that others would just shake their heads about. Bob [supertooth]

[Conder101]

Years ago, there was an old Garfield cartoon strip that concluded with Garfield saying something like "It's amazing the things some people would rather have than money".

Garfield? Sounds more like Dogbert.

[jom]

So, I guess that it all depends on what you want out of your collection. It could mean that you WOULD spend foolish money for something that others would just shake their heads about. Bob [supertooth]

 

That's all true I guess. I think my reaction was from my experience with nickels more than anything. I see two VERY COMMON dates that went for crazy money and they weren't really all that special. I mean, the 38D was pretty nice but 12 grand? The 37-S was really just no big deal other than the holder it was it. It's all relative I guess...in your case would you buy a 45P Walker at that price or spend it on a full strike 19D?...hell ANY 19D?

 

jom

[Hoot]

I bought both lots.

 

Hoot

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[supertooth]

jom----- Yes, you are now hitting me in my area of some knowledge.

 

If I had a choice of a 1945 in MS67 from either PCGS or NGC vs. a 1919D in let us say 'original patina' XF40 or better----Bob would take the 19D without question. But maybe a fellow, who collected only later dated Walkers, wouldn't.

 

But jom, certainly your point is very well taken. And I really do agree with you on the whole. Why pay crazy money for an easy to get coin? Pay the crazy money for a coin that can hardly ever be found. Course the buyer's retort would be-----Can you find another one graded that high??

 

I think what really bothers both of us is the "amount of money" that is being---from our perspective---"wasted". Both of us could find a lot of 'other' coins that we would want for say that 12,000 bucks.

 

I had a patient one time that spent thousands of dollars to have his dog's teeth straightened. He brought the dog into my office for me to take a look. The gentleman commented that he had more money in his 'show' dog's teeth than he had in his own mouth. The patient needed some future crowns and I made sure that he did some catching up. It is all in what is your value system. Bob [supertooth]

[jesbroken]

There is a point overlooked that answers a lot in regards to these type auction bids. The wealth of the bidder. For MOST of us on this forum, $30K is a huge amount of money, but to some its a small amount, thus when bidding, their cut off price(as Bob has stated) is way above most bidders except ones in their wealth class. These bids are not excessive to them and may be even a bragging point, unlike to most of the collecting world.

[Shamika-migration]

Is this just Registry stupidity or what? Good Lord....I mean...I like Buffs but c'mon!

Agree. This is crazy. When a coin sells for 100 times it's value at one grade lower, there's something screwy.

 

 

 

[BillJones]

There is a point overlooked that answers a lot in regards to these type auction bids. The wealth of the bidder. For MOST of us on this forum, $30K is a huge amount of money, but to some its a small amount, thus when bidding, their cut off price(as Bob has stated) is way above most bidders except ones in their wealth class. These bids are not excessive to them and may be even a bragging point, unlike to most of the collecting world.

 

I've had a couple very wealthy customers, and from my experience they were among the hardest bargainers among all the people with whom I did business. One got so bad about it that it no longer made sense for me to do business with him. Sure it might look impressive to make a sale for $20,000, but if you only made $100 on the gross margin and had to travel to his office to sell it to him, it was not worth while.

 

Maybe there are some of these sugar daddies out there who spend freely, but I've not run into them. My experience has been that wealthy people got that way by spending their money wisely.

[supertooth]

Hello Folks---- There have been many really great replies to this thread started by jom. I think that a point that again could be made is that we should start out slowly. Then,as we can progress up that knowledge ladder, we can spend more. This should be done whether the collector is poor or rich.

 

If you really want to become a Numismatist, it takes a lot of time---a lot of reading---a lot of looking at coins---a lot of interacting with all sorts of folks. It takes a lot of 'patience' too. Not to mention the realization that one will make mistakes---and MUST learn from those errors of judgement.

 

As I got serious about Walkers 8+ years ago, I started finishing a "fine" set from my youth. I usually was spending about 30 bucks a coin. As I worked along, I found all the pitfalls---like most folks do. Then, with time and greater knowledge, I moved to a VF--XF set. Was spending more money. But had a 100 dollar limit then. Trying to match colors---getting only original patina coins---patiently awaiting each and every coin to come along. Buying a 21D in fine12 for 250 dollars was a little scary---although by this time, I was ready.

 

When the XF--Unc. Registry set started, the money then went into the hundreds. But, again, I had learned and was ready for the challenge. Time and experience had allowed me to make fewer and fewer mistakes. Had sold some coins too---made real decent profits. Had proved that my judgements were sound. Knew that I was slowly accomplishing my goals that I had originally set for myself at the beginning of the adventure. To those who may have had more money to spend---I say to still take it slowly. Otherwise, you will find the pitfalls busting your chops a lot harder than necessary. What would you rather do---learn about hairlines and cleanings and all the other things with 30 dollar coins----or with 3,000 dollar coins that will NOT resell for half of that??

 

Now, I buy Walkers that can go into the thousands. My dear wife says nothing. She trusts me because I have a proven track record. My collector son just shakes his head at my good fortune. I still sell some just to keep proving to all that I am still worthy of the trust. But, I tell all of you, that I would have made a HUGE MESS of things had I tried to do this in the beginning.

 

As to a 30,000 dollar purchase----believe I would still need a FAMILY meeting to get away with that. My wife and two kids would need to be reassured that dad wasn't loosing his mind. You see, the higher up the knowledge ladder that you progress---the more expensive that the coins CAN become. Then your wife asks about the retirement---the kids about their inheritances----What about the grandchildren?? It would require me proving that I could resell at that level. I can see my daughter now. Thirty thousand dollars for a half dollar?? Soon the little men in the white coats would appear at the door. Dad would be taking a vacation.

 

All of you have fun at whatever level you are at. Save and protect your coins for the future generations. They need to learn too. Bob [supertooth]

[Houston Investor]

Its unbelievable - I wish I had wealthy people like that at my table at the show I was at last weekend. An MS 65 1938-D can be had for around $60 and a MS 66 around $100. Whoever bought those - they are the end user.

 

There are other things I could spend that kind of money on and I am not talking about coins.

 

 

[jom]

Thanks for all of the responses.

 

To give a little bit more perspective. On Saturday at the LB show I was walking around and found a nice $10 piece I liked. While there talking to the dealer at the table I noted a 1913 Barber Quarter NGC Proof 68 non-cameo in this case. I asked the price (specifically thinking of this thread). I was quote $9750. You can talk all day long about things being relative when it comes to buyers who have dough but doesn't this give some indication of crazyness? I mean, this is a Barber Proof for crying out loud. Not only is it less than a common date Buffalo it's 3X less than another relatively common 37-S Buffalo in a similar grade.

 

jom

[Keleum]

As a newcomer to this, it's interesting on just how hot, the in-collectibles are. Goofiness like that, is pushing me to the darkside, as those kinds of prices trickle down to me.

 

[just carl]

The story posted here about auction houses with someone in the back constantly bidding high is very common. Those are so called ringers and are at many auction houses. They are paid to jack up the prices by bidding high in hopes others will get caught up in a buying frenzy. For all the ones they win, they just go back up for auction another day. This is not just for coins, but for many, many auctions. Also, it happens on the internet auctions such as ebay. I've known people that have people bid on an item to raise the price and if they win, it goes back up at a later date. In reality, very common. The prices on those nickels could be just that. Many times those items sell even though fantastically overpriced and the buyers later say "What did I do?"

[BillJones]

I've had dealers I know ask me to bid in Ebay auctions. I always declined to do it, but the conversation when like this.

 

"I'd like you to bid on this item for me that I've got up on Ebay."

 

"I don't want it."

 

"I doesn't matter. You won't have to buy it if you win it."

[just-john]

why ANYONE would pay $12,000 for a 1938-D nickel? OR...for that matter...$29,000 for a 1937-S nickel? These were in the Heritage Sig auction this afternoon. Lot 790 and 792.

 

Just think the owner of these coins is kicking himself hard for hot having a higher min bid in place for that auction.Who knows maybe he could of gotten more ?

[Conder101]

The major houses don't have shills or ringers bidding just to raise the hammer price. But they do tend to have retail businesses in addition to their auction business and if you will look at the terms of sale you will find clauses that advise that they reserve the right to bid in the sale for their own account. (And they do have an advantage in doing so because they typically exclude their account from having to pay the buyer premium.)