Ignorance and eBay...

[jtryka]

So I was perusing the eBay listings of Saints the other day, just for fun, and I came across this auction for a 1907 HR Saint that looked really cheap (too cheap). So I click on it and low and behold, it looks all wrong, so my immediate first impression was that it was either a 3" coaster coin, or a really bad fake. So I e-mailed the seller and asked for the diameter and weight, and I got a message tonight, and sure enough, the diameter is 3"! So I replied, informing the seller of the diameter of a genuine double eagle being about half that, or 34 mm, and suggesting that this important info be added to the description. I truly hope this seller does the right thing, and either cancels the auction, or at the very least inform the bidders that the coin is in fact a novelty. I would sure hate to be the person paying over $300 for a $2 gag gift!!!

[MAULEMALL]

It's up to $325.00

[TomB]

I just looked at the auction and the image is so obviously not a real coin that I can only surmise that the bidders are either not very bright or the image did not come up for them.

[jtryka]

You know, there are a lot of good fakes out there, and if I didn't know about the "omega" fakes, I'm sure they would fool me, but this isn't even close. I can count on one hand the number of times I have bought raw double eagles through eBay, and each one was bad. A couple were cleaned, but I resold them as cleaned for a small loss, and one was a great middle eastern fake 1903, that was really tough to distinguish in hand, let alone from a photo. The coaster coins are problematic, but more for the lesser denominations, as a coaster 1877 Indian, looks XF, which from a photo is hard to tell (I bought one of these at a fair once and posted in the forums and was surprised at the debate that ensued!). Those to me are more dangerous as the photos make it harder to tell, but for a Saint that is typically unc, with a high relief, it's simple. The troubling thing is that technically this person isn't doing anything wrong, as they are making no assertions of genuineness, nor do they mention the size. It's a case of buyer beware, so if you don't ask, and pay crazy money for a novelty, then too bad. I know that there would be strong legal arguments for either side though. Ethically however, no person with a shred of moral fiber should knowingly allow this thing to get past $5 without pulling the plug!

[MAULEMALL]

check the bid history

[TomB]

I don't agree that the seller is doing nothing technically wrong; after all, this piece is listed under COINS and DOUBLE EAGLE when it should be listed under EXONUMIA. They are entirely two different things. I believe they also state that this is a coin in the item description.

[jtryka]

TomB, I agree, and what you outline is part of the legal arguments for the buyer's side, but the seller could also plead ignorance of this fact, after all, it is large, round and has the appropriate legends of the US government (the size of these coins do not require them to state "copy" on them). And for $20, you would expect a big coin right? I fully agree with you, that this is wrong, but there are technical/legal arguments to be made on both sides. I looked at the seller's feedback, and he sells mostly non-coins (I couldn't find any coins in recent history), so he could genuinely be ignorant of what he is selling. I only e-mailed him back a short time ago, so perhaps he will do the right thing.

[TomB]

I am also giving the seller the benefit of the doubt here, however, that does not change the fact that it is described improperly and is in the wrong section. Again, in this case, I think the seller just doesn't know it, but ignorance of the low does not excuse one from it.

[Leothelion]

This is a perfect example that most collectors or buyers on ebay and elsewhere are just coin eliterate. They don't know didley squat about coins. It will be interesting to see what kind of feedback generates from this sale; Wow, super coin! Great seller! Will do business again! Thanks Bob! Not until the buyer takes it to a coin shop and find out it's nothing but a coffee coaster! A $300+ coaster!

Same goes for ebay's feedback. Most don't have a clue about what they bought!

 

Leo

[Leothelion]

The same thing goes at local auctions. I want the mint sets for the coins but the guy I'm bidding against wants it for a birthday year set for his kid.

 

Leo

[TomB]

I'm scratching my head on this one now. The seller ended the auction, which was very good, but restarted the auction and the description and everything else is the same as far as I can tell. Did they change anything?

[jtryka]

I don't see a new one started, but the seller e-mailed me back and it seemed like he was just ignorant and trying to do the right thing, so I provided more info for him and encouraged him to end this auction. TomB if you have a link to the relisted auction, please post it.

[TomB]

You're right! I'm an insufficiently_thoughtful_person! I was looking at the ended auction and thought it was restarted! I guess I really should pay more attention to these things.

[SilverEagleCoins]

It even says right across the top the seller has stopped the auction due to a error in the listing.