Updated 9-12 New Ebay policy? If you were running Ebay+had a clue about coins..

[MarkFeld]

I don't know if this is accurate or not, but coincidentally, this was posted this evening:

Changes in Ebay policy?

 

 

So what is so friggin' great about it? and no, I DON'T sell third world slabs. Nowhere does it say that self-slabbers can't peddle their wares--only that they can't call the coin certified. Most of the sellers I have seen don't call them certified coins now--merely graded by XYG grading company. Even if Ebay decides to include the term graded as well as certified it only means that the seller can't refer to the slab grade in the title--nothing says they can't in the body of the discription.

 

I just don't see how this helps. Of course, I don't see how making a seller show a pic of the slab helps me either. I already know what a slab looks like...I WANT TO SEE THE COIN!!!

I am in favor of just about any policy which makes life more difficult for self-slabbers (and/or those who provide requested grades to others) while falsely claiming to be/intentionally giving the impression that they are independent grading/certification companies. Such misrepresentation can be far more dangerous than that by the sellers of unencapsulated coins.

 

If the rumored changes come to pass they will obviously be far from perfect, but I'd still much prefer them to the present situation.

 

Edited to add: While the timing of this thread might lead one to believe otherwise, I was unaware that the (at this point unofficial) changes in policy were even close to imminent.

[Keleum]

I haven't been doing this as long as you guys, but is this really a big deal for us collectors. I know it encroaches on the domain of NGC and PCGS, so this is a good move for the business of grading.

 

From what I see, SGS and the others get raw prices anyways. I've never seen an auction where an SGS coin gets the price of an NGC/PCGS. I rarely see auctions where an ICG gets PCGS prices.

 

The fact that my ebay search for "MS70" or "(PF,PR)70" returns a subset or coins from certain graders, doesn't help me. It helps those grading companies protect their business.

 

What are you guys seeing, that I'm not?

[xJack]

From what I see, SGS and the others get raw prices anyways. I've never seen an auction where an SGS coin gets the price of an NGC/PCGS. I rarely see auctions where an ICG gets PCGS prices.

 

The problem is a bit deeper than that - what happens in 5 years when someone who doesn't know they bought a turkey tries to sell?

 

What happens in 50 years when the heirs to that person's estate try to sell?

 

For the most part, those coins do bring more than their Raw equivalent. While there is some value added, it doesn't justify the grey area in price that is between raw and NGC/PCGS.

 

If I thought I could get $10 or $15 more per coin, then I'd include a free coin world holder with a blank label in all my auctions.

 

The fact is, by simply typing a label on a coin world holder, many of these self slabbers are getting premiums beyond the $2 coin world holder.

 

That premium comes from those who don't know any better, and THAT'S the problem. Many of these folks don't know the difference, and are paying hundreds or thousands in premiums for the "certification" that is basically a $2 holder.

[okbustchaser]

The problem is a bit deeper than that - what happens in 5 years when someone who doesn't know they bought a turkey tries to sell?

 

What happens in 50 years when the heirs to that person's estate try to sell?

 

The same thing that happens to someone who bought a turkey in either a NGC or a PCGS holder--and don't think that they don't exist. The answer isn't saying that a seller can't in a legal and truthful manner describe his property--it is in teaching collectors how to tell the difference between a nice coin and said turkey.

 

Nothing Ebay (or anyone else) can ever do will protect a person from spending his money foolishly. If someone is spending a large amount of money--at whatever level large is to him--without first learning anything at all about his purchase then someone IS going to take advantage of him...period, full stop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MarkFeld]

The problem is a bit deeper than that - what happens in 5 years when someone who doesn't know they bought a turkey tries to sell?

 

What happens in 50 years when the heirs to that person's estate try to sell?

 

The same thing that happens to someone who bought a turkey in either a NGC or a PCGS holder--and don't think that they don't exist. The answer isn't saying that a seller can't in a legal and truthful manner describe his property--it is in teaching collectors how to tell the difference between a nice coin and said turkey.

 

Nothing Ebay (or anyone else) can ever do will protect a person from spending his money foolishly. If someone is spending a large amount of money--at whatever level large is to him--without first learning anything at all about his purchase then someone IS going to take advantage of him...period, full stop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with the above. However, many sellers do NOT describe their property in a truthful manner. And in particular, making life more difficult for self-slabbers and/or make believe grading/certification outfits (a large number of whom intentionally mislead buyers) is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. On a practical basis there is no ideal solution, but I much prefer this flawed effort to any alternatives I am aware of.

[jgrinz]

I did not see the confirmation email posted here ...

Here it is :

***********************************************

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to our policies concerning the sale

of coins.

 

You are indeed correct that our policies will be changing shortly. On

September 17th our policy page regarding the sale of coins and currency

will be updated to include the following information.

 

When listing a certified coin, the coin must be certified by one of the

following authorized grading companies:

 

* Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC)

* Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS)

* Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)

* Independent Coin Grading (ICG)

* ANACS

 

In addition, listings for certified coins:

 

* Must be assigned the appropriate grading attributes in each listing.

Sellers must select the appropriate grading attributes within the Sell

Your Item form, including "Grading Company," "Grade" and "Serial Number"

provided with that grading.

 

* The listing must include an image of the item, showing the coin in its

graded holder, front and back.

 

If the coin listed is not certified by one of the above authorized

grading companies, the coin is considered raw/uncertified and is subject

to additional requirements for their sale.

 

A raw or uncertified coin is defined as any coin not graded by one of

the authorized grading companies. Sellers are permitted to list these

items on eBay under the following conditions:

* A numeric grade is not included in the title of the listing, such as

MS-65, VF-25, etc. A numeric grade may only be included in the

description of the listing.

* The grading company or price guide is not referenced in the title or

description.

* A dollar value (even if personal opinion) is not included in the title

or description.

 

As of this time the policy is not being enforced and enforcement may not

be immediate as we work to make sure everything is working correctly.

 

We thank you in advance for your cooperation, and wish you luck with

your future eBay transactions.

 

Sincerely,

Akira

 

eBay Customer Support

 

[gmarguli]

I don't know if this is accurate or not, but coincidentally, this was posted this evening:

Changes in Ebay policy?

 

According to a post ATS, here are the new rules:

 

Graded Coins

1) When listing a certified coin, the coin must be certified by one of the following authorized grading companies: NGC, NCS, PCGS, ICG, & ANACS

 

2) Sellers must select the appropriate grading attributes within the Sell Your Item form, including "Grading Company," "Grade" and "Serial Number" provided with that grading.

 

3) Listing must include an image of the item, showing the coin in its graded holder, front and back.

 

 

Raw Coins

1) Numeric grade is not included in the title of the listing. It may be included in the description of the listing.

 

2) Grading company or price guide is not referenced in the title or description.

 

3) A dollar value (even if personal opinion) is not included in the title or description.

 

 

As a seller, I can say that Graded Coin Rules #2 & #3 are going to create a lot of problems and extra work.

 

The sell your item form is completely useless. In fact, it is worse than useless, it is incorrect many times and just takes up space in the auction listing and provides zero added value.

 

Pictures of the coin in the slab both front and back is moronic. Now we have to have 3 pictures of the coin being sold instead of one good picture. Gee, does eBay charge for extra pictures for those that don't have their own hosting? Nahh, that couldn't be one of the reasons for this addition. eBay would never nickel and dime sellers. :yeahok:

 

Sounds like this will increase listing times by 15%-20%. This is a moronic move on the part of eBay and it sounds like it was designed by someone who has never sold coins on eBay.

 

As for raw coins, I guess I can no longer quote the Greysheet for generic moderns or the current US Mint price. insufficiently_thoughtful_persons!

[WoodenJefferson]

It's a starting point that e-Bay is doing to clean up the coin and stamp listings...what ever policy they come up with you'll have to follow or your listings will be ended. Plain and simple.

 

person_without_enough_empathy, gripe and throw tantrums all you want, it has to start somewhere and I think the Header Listing policy is a good starting point to keep these sections better managed.

 

I'm not sure that that information has been confirmed through official e-bay sources as of yet, I hope it's not a spoof e-mail.

[MarkFeld]

Pictures of the coin in the slab both front and back is moronic. Now we have to have 3 pictures of the coin being sold instead of one good picture. Gee, does eBay charge for extra pictures for those that don't have their own hosting? Nahh, that couldn't be one of the reasons for this addition. eBay would never nickel and dime sellers

Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but why can't sellers just use one combined image of the obverse and reverse?

[MikeInFL]

Bravo to eBay for taking a few steps in the right direction.

 

Specifically:

 

When listing a certified coin, the coin must be certified by one of the

following authorized grading companies:

 

* Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC)

* Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS)

* Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)

* Independent Coin Grading (ICG)

* ANACS

...

If the coin listed is not certified by one of the above authorized

grading companies, the coin is considered raw/uncertified and is subject

to additional requirements for their sale.

...

* The grading company or price guide is not referenced in the title or

description.

* A dollar value (even if personal opinion) is not included in the title

or description.

 

Combined, these will put an end to long-standing deceptive selling practices, and I, for one, applaud it...Mike

[gmarguli]

Pictures of the coin in the slab both front and back is moronic. Now we have to have 3 pictures of the coin being sold instead of one good picture. Gee, does eBay charge for extra pictures for those that don't have their own hosting? Nahh, that couldn't be one of the reasons for this addition. eBay would never nickel and dime sellers

Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but why can't sellers just use one combined image of the obverse and reverse?

 

They can. I'm not sure what the size limit is on pictures hosted by eBay, but it may prove to be rather small.

 

The last time I looked - and that was a long time ago - eBay gave one free picture, so if that is still true, it'll need to be used to host a front/back slab picture.

 

This is really overkill. Why force sellers to enter info into the useless form and also force them to picture it? Pictures are one of the most time consuming aspects for selling and now eBay has changed the rules to make it even more time consuming.

 

A few months ago eBay paid me to sit down and literally discuss what they could do to get more listing fees from me. I guess I should have responded - make things harder and more time consuming to sell.

[MikeInFL]

Requiring front and back photos of the slab does seem excessive. I'd be happy with only an obverse shot of the slab being required -- I'm not sure what a picture of the slab's reverse buys you, provided there's a good closeup of the reverse and the cert number is also included....Mike

[MikeInFL]

Apparently the new policy has been officially announced and goes into effect 10/1:

 

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?threadID=2000436165&tstart=0&mod=1190161253763

[Zoins]

I think they require both front and back of the slab because of the following issues:

 

(1) Some TPGs usually put certification info on the front, e.g. NGC, PCGS, ICG, old ANACS

(2) Some TPGs occasionally put certification on the back, e.g. PCGS reverse SHQs and PDs

(3) Some TPGs sometimes put grade on the front and cert number on the back, e.g. new ANACS

(4) The security hologram is usually on the back.

 

Even if eBay didn't care about the security hologram, I think they want to avoid having a policy that says show the entire front except when it's a PCGS reverse insert in which case show the back and be sure to show both sides for ANACS slabs except when it's an old white ANACS slab where you only need to show the front.

 

If there's any blame to go around for this, I think one should look at the TPGs, and not NGC or ICG.

[James_OldeTowne]

Apparently the new policy has been officially announced and goes into effect 10/1:

 

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa?threadID=2000436165&tstart=0&mod=1190161253763

This policy is more reasonable than what was seemingly described elsewhere. I don't see anything wrong with it.

[P&G Collectibles-migration]

Hi, I am not aware of this rule either. It concerns me as i have put my entire collection up for auction in my store. Do i need to worry about this?

 

http://stores.ebay.com/P-G-Collectibles-and-Antiquities

[jesbroken]

Nice plug, P&G. Welcome to the forum.

 

What this truly does for the TPG's is controls where a search goes when one explicitly asks for MS70, MS69, etc. coins. It will only show the 5 TPG listings.

Someone said this is a start, and are they ever right. People should not be buying high end coins with no education nor professional assistance and should they do it anyway it is "Buyer Beware". This is not a new saying. I feel the most misused aspect of title of the listing abuses is the AU/BU coin. These coins are almost always VF/EF coins or worse. AU has became a joke in my opinion for title of the listings. Let's just allow only exact descriptions-such as, 1924P Buffalo Nickel-circulated. That's all-no more, no less. This won't happen as the TPG's would scream bloody murder and we all know they get their way. As long as you can put anything in the body of your description, this would be a far fairer way to describe your coin in the title of the listing. JMO.

[Keleum]

If your a seller of certified coins on eBay this is great news, you now get your own own little corner in eBay's cyberworld.

 

For the rest of us, i still have to wade through First Strike, Early Release, First year of issue, First day of issue, 2nd tuesday of Lent...whatever to see the coins I want...

 

 

[construct]

Sorry, but I disagree that the new policy is an improvement. I have never sold a coin on ebay. I have bought coins on ebay--both raw and certified. I have been happy with almost all of them. I would prefer to have the sellers grade opinion of raw coins in the listing. I would also prefer to see in the listing whether the coin is in a slab and which company slabbed it. I pay no attention whatsoever to a sellers value estimate.

 

As for listing rules, here is my proposal:

 

1. The listing for a coin in a slab must state the name of the grading service in the title.

 

2. Any coin not slabbed by a company with a grade and authenticity guarantee must have a seven day return policy.

 

That's it. I couldn't think of another one.

[Keleum]

I would up the ante and say that there should be an increasing penalty for selling a fake coin, the 2nd and 3rd, etc. People sell fakes to make money, if they could lose money, they won't sell them.

[CHABSENTIA]

I agree with the previous poster.I have fonf people selling a lower tier slab with the NGC population and trend for that grade.I E Mailed the Seller and he replied that this was the Population report. I replied that it was for NGC nad not this Company and asked for a Population report for his slab.

 

He not only replied that " He didn't have to show me anything" but if I E mailed him again he was going to report me to E- Bay for harrassment and block me from bidding on his coins.

 

Another one takes pictures of the coin but in four pictures does not show the label of the grading Company but cites NGC for the Population and says it "trends for x dollars for PCGS.

 

I ran across another that advertised a 1996 Silver Eagle NGC in MS70 but when you looked at the picture it was NGC MS69 and when you read the description the seller calimed it was a mistake.

 

I actually bought a Coin slabbed by SGS just out of curiosity and sent it in for grading.It was slabbed as a MS70 and graded as a MS69. I used it with my voucher and it is worth more than I paid for it.There is one Company on E Bay that is huge on SGS Slabs . I doubt very seriously if E BAy is going to dis-allow a Company that probably represents a lot of Revenue for them.

 

It would seem to me that any rule that prohibited people with raw coins from expressing any opinion about a grade would be to force people to depend on and buy the slabbed coins no matter the Rep.