Do you think that slabbed coins are only for investors?

[BillJones]

Recently I read in the Coin World “Letters to the Editor” column a letter where a reader made the claim that slabs were for investors. Real collectors he claimed only bought raw coins.

 

I was rather surprised at this because I’ve always regarded my core collecting activities to be strictly as a hobby. Sure I generally keep up with the current values of the major coins in my collection, but that is no more than what a prudent person would do given the cost of nice coins these days. Unless you are Daddy Warbucks, it is prudent to be careful when you spend anywhere from a few hundred to thousands of dollars for a coin. To me my collection is a consumer good that sort never gets consumed if you follow that logic. At any rate I don’t view slabbed coins as strictly in investment medium. Sure investors buy coins in slabs for that purpose, but for collectors slabs do offer a level of physical protection for the coin and financial protection for the owner.

 

[WinstonWare]

No, I don’t think that. My collection is about half and half right now – maybe a few more raw coins because of my dansco 7070 set. While I’m conscious of prices and markets it’s my hope to never have to sell my collection.

[Lem]

About 3/4 of my collection is slabbed, but I do not consider myself an investor, I'm a collector first and foremost. I like my coins both raw and slabbed, it really depends on the coin if I want it slabbed or not. Now I'm not going to lie here, and I'm sure everyone here hopes that their coins will increase in value but I don't think that makes most of us investors. The ones I have slabbed are usually of higher grade (considering the coin) I hope to preserve it for the future to pass on to my kids. So no I do not agree with that statement. I like both!!!

[okbustchaser]

I don't necessarily think that slabs are only for investors. I do think that anyone who considers himself strictly a collector rather than an investor should be willing to put forth the effort to learn enough about what he is collecting not to need to depend on slabs.

 

[bsshog40]

I don't agree either. I have some slabs and the only reason I have them is for my registry sets.

[jgrinz]

As A collector And Investor I use them for BOTH purposes.

 

Coin are MORE marketable in a slab making them a more liquid investment.

 

I used slabs in my collection for protection from the elements ( As much as possible ) or stupidity, especially my 1883 Proof set, where in some cases there were on 900 or so made. If I drop a 10k coin in a slab on the ground, no problem. Do that with a raw coin and .. well we wont go there. We have all done the dropping thing at one time or another.

 

So I would disagree with the statement that Slabs are ONLY for Investors

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DirtyGoldMan]

I read the same letter to the editor and had the same reaction. Nothing could be further from the truth. Try to collect a classic US gold series raw, and you will find that the coins offered raw are largely coins that cannot be slabbed due to harsh cleaning, damage, etc. It's probably the same for bust dollars, gem Barber halves, and other higher ticket items. Sure, if you want to collect XF mercury dimes or AU/BU Franklin halves, or even a circulated seated series, raw may be the way to go.

 

One of the nicest collections that I have seen in the last year was a complete matched seated quarter set in original XF in a Dansco album. No doubt some of these coins (probably the better dates) were purchased slabbed.

[BillJones]

Try to collect a classic US gold series raw, and you will find that the coins offered raw are largely coins that cannot be slabbed due to harsh cleaning, damage, etc. It's probably the same for bust dollars, gem Barber halves, and other higher ticket items. Sure, if you want to collect XF mercury dimes or AU/BU Franklin halves, or even a circulated seated series, raw may be the way to go.

 

Yep, that's the big problem with most of the expensive or better date raw material you see these days.

 

Years ago I saw a beautiful Classic Head $5 gold coin raw in a dealer's inventory. The basic grade of the coin was MS-63, and I was really attracted to it. It took me a while to figure out what was wrong, but then I found it. The piece are received a rim bump that had been very skillfully filed off. Such coins receive instant body bags in most every case. Sometimes you will see a coin with a minor rim bump in a slab. But if that rim bump has been tempered with, it will get a “no grade” almost for sure.

 

[cpm9ball]

I, too, disagree. Let's say that a "true collector" saw a coin in a slab that was undergraded by a point, or maybe two. Does that mean that this, so-called, true collector wouldn't buy it because it was in a slab? I hardly think so! "Buy the coin, not the slab!" Isn't that what we are told?

 

Chris

[supertooth]

Bill---- Your post brings many thoughts to my mind. But, mainly, I guess that I slab my coins for three reasons. The first is to protect the coin from all sorts of potential harms. The second is so that my heirs do not have near as many problems deciding about either retaining the coins in a collection---or selling them at auction. And, the third reason is to actually check my grading---to let NGC or PCGS or ANACS establish a ballpark value for the coin by providing me with their estimate of a grade.

 

As I buy most of my coins raw, slabbing those coins allows me to assess my abilities. It allows me to know the range of my abilities depending upon which series of coins that I am buying. Afterall, I might be an 'expert' in one series or two, but likely NOT an expert in others. When you buy accumulations, you must be able to give fair value----without taking undue risks.

 

As to buying already slabbed coins, RYK is absolutely correct. Rarer coins worth thousands of bucks are usually not found raw---so purchasing an already slabbed coin may be very necessary. There are soooo many reasons for buying an already slabbed coin in these circumstances. However, as coins are first found in old collections, it must be remembered that SOMEONE had to first find the coin and slab it. So, certainly, not every rare coin found raw is automatically bogus because it is raw. You MUST know your series so that you can grade for yourself. It is all part of the educational ladder that ALL of us are continually climbing.

 

As to the money. Well, that depends on the collector. If you collect coins out of pocket change, your risks are virtually nill. You can do it for fun----ALL THE WAY. However, if you are doing it in the thousands, then I see no way that one can totally avoid the investment concept----unless their wealth is soooo great as their collections' value does not matter to themselves---or their heirs. Many times I look around and think---gee, my collection is now worth a lot of money. Buying one coin at a time---a few each month---seems not to bother the collector. But then one day---after many years of doing this---if you decide to add it all up. Well, as a total, you might be taken aback as to how much you really do have in your HOBBY?? Just add up the money given to the TPGS. It might frighten you. At that point, you had better hope that you have known what you are doing. Bob [supertooth]

[RUSS BEGA]

most of my coin are raw. personally i prefer raw coins to slabbed coins UNLESS it's of incredable value and or historic importance. i'm not going to slab common date morgans in a grade of 64/65 if i dont have to

[RAPP-migration]

I am a collector. Many of the raw coins that I bought 20 or more years ago have PVC damage from holders that were supposed to protect them. Other coins that I decided to grade after 20 years, come back as having environmental damage or improper cleaning. I never knew. I now only buy graded coins, or brand new from the mint, to keep them protected and so there is no confusion as to grade. I wouldn't want to pay $12.50 to grade a coin that is only worth less than $10 though.

[WoodenJefferson]

Where to begin...that could create a rather long response for those who have been around in this hobby prior to the mid-80's when the certification of raw coins really took off.

 

I have some questions as to what is considered a "raw coin"

 

Do you consider an un-opened 20th Anniversary Set directly from the mint as raw coins?

(9 chances out of 10 they will grade MS-69 or higher)

 

Do you consider all the other ASE's directly from the mint to you, as raw?

(these will also garner a high grade)

 

What about the Gold & Platinum coins directly from the US Mint?

(these too will also invariably will grade out high on Sheldon Scale)

 

Are these modern widgets basically investment coins/bullion as opposed to a collector series? The TV shows can only sell what they can obtain in MASS quantities and target anyone who has a disposable income at the time of viewing. I don't think most of those buyers are die hard collectors, if they were, they would already know that a proof set run from 1956 to 1998 should not cost $1400.00 even in they throw in (hype) the three SMS and a 1976 3-Piece Silver set.

 

I have nothing against those who purchase these moderns as an investment or even as a collection, but slabbing them has almost become mundane. Getting less than a MS-70 or PR-70 now days is like me sending in a 1955 Franklin half dollar and getting back a MS-64 instead of a MS-65 FBL I was hoping for.

 

Somehow it's all relative but then not.

 

There are more questions than there are answers to this question of investment/collector/Grading Services and how they merge or even repel one another. I'm interested in the responses and how each individual approaches this factor.

 

 

 

[RAPP-migration]

I agree with some of these questions. There are no rules to this hobby/investment/collection. Collect/accumulate what you want.

 

Anything bought directly from the mint obviously comes as a raw coin. I think anything that is not certified should be considered "raw". OGP=raw, correct? I was actually talking about pre 1982 collecting when the only thing that really came out of the mint packaged was the mint and proof sets.

 

I collect mostly modern coins but don't buy from the TV shows. I do my research and buy where I can get the best price. I have also bought OGP coins from the mint and from other sellers on Ebay and have taken my chances at NGC. Most modern commems, ASE's comeback as 69 or 70. Like you said, anything less than a 70 a disappointment. I was pretty happy with my colllections in 69 until I found the registry. Maybe the registry's are driving the market and not the grading?

[World Colonial]

I echo your comments. I have too much money in my collections and I am not wealthy enought to ignore the financial side. And neither will the person(s) who receive my collection whom I would like to get as much out of it as posisble if they decide not to keep it.

[zrlevin]

I buy coins, not plastic. If I buy a coin in a slab, it won't stay that way for long. In my core collection, there is only one slabbed coin...and that is because it isn't paid off yet.

[rbrown4]

I would have to say that my goals and realized results for having some coins slabbed is as Bob lays out with his three points. In my case it was to help determine value for our family now as well as future heirs.

 

As far as collector or investor, to me it can be quite ambiguous. In my opinion, there are collectors only, investors only and the combination of the two. A collector collects because he/she takes pride in their collection. They may enjoy the scarcity factor, the history factor, etc. They also realize the value of their collection but unlike an investor may not worry about short term changes in the economics of the coin market. An investor on the other hand is just that an investor buying and selling and may not have a long term committment to the hobby. Therefore I would think many investors invest and deal with slabbed coins much more so than many collectors only who many times will break the coin out of a slab.

 

Then there is the combination of the collector/investor. To me that is where I would classify myself. It is a hobby and therefore I am a collector of coins but I am also aware of the financial aspects of the collection and view it is well as an investment.

 

Rey

[dooly]

At the moment i only buy slabbed 1971 coins ! so no my slabbed coins buys are not for investment, well unless i plan to sell them in 2099

 

as for the big money coins i think you would do better buying scrap silver/gold and invest in the prices going up its a more garenteed way for an invester to make money as all you have to do is watch the prices

 

coins i think you have to have Some idea to make srude investments

 

also if a true investor came along they would buy all the MS-63/64 morgan dollars and push the prices up then sell ? Would it work maybe for a wile but i dont think there would be enough proffit to make it worth while.. and remember an investor is out to make more proffit than keeping it in the bank and reaping the intrest..with minamal effort.

 

So no i dont think Slabbed coins are for investors only there for people who can afford them !!!!

 

just my

[nwcs]

Slabbed coins are not only for investors. That is a ridiculous assertion. It would be like saying the only real photographers use daguerreotype cameras.

[Bruceswar]

I don't necessarily think that slabs are only for investors. I do think that anyone who considers himself strictly a collector rather than an investor should be willing to put forth the effort to learn enough about what he is collecting not to need to depend on slabs.

 

 

I agree 100% Learn what you collect and have fun doing it!

[Houston Investor]

Beyond a certain dollar value a coin will need to be slabbed to be marketable. This can also depend on the grade, value, and series.

 

However, there are many expensive coins where slabbing does not really add substantial value. Take modern commems and bullion for instance.

 

Then there are collector coins where slabbing cost is 100% or more of the cost you have in the coin. I still find collector coins and currency a very enjoyable part of the hobby and have a substantial offering of them at my table at shows in additon to certified material.

 

Recently, I bought a large Galveston collection of slabbed coins, currency (some of the nicer pieces are on their way to PMG), and collector coins (valued under $25). The seller complained people just wanted to cherrypick it - I took it all. At a show, a collector going thru the raw coins picked out a few of the collector coins from this collection along with some world currency, about a total purchase of around $120. One of the nicer coins from the collection, an 1885-CC PCGS (old green label holder) Morgan Dollar also sold at the show (to a different buyer).

 

As evidenced by the popularity of registry sets, slabbed coins are for collectors as well.

[Zoins]

A number of collectors will crack slabs which is probably closer to the type of collecting the author was talking about.

[Zoins]

I don't necessarily think that slabs are only for investors. I do think that anyone who considers himself strictly a collector rather than an investor should be willing to put forth the effort to learn enough about what he is collecting not to need to depend on slabs.

I agree 100% Learn what you collect and have fun doing it!

And if you like color, don't forget to experiment to learn what you are buying

[MikeInFL]

"Do you think that slabbed coins are only for investors?"

 

Not at all -- the key word being "only". While it is true that slabs are the are the grease in the gears of the investment game, a "real" collector (if there is such a thing) doesn't discriminate in finding the best coins for his/her collection...Mike

 

 

[michael]

Re: Do you think that slabbed coins are only for investors/spectulators?

 

absolutely YES!!---- and ONLY, only if the slab says ms/pr 69-70

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

and anything proof/ms 68 or below graded in slabs, many, MANY!! true collectors own.......

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and again anything in a ms/proof 69-70 holder is for spectulators/investors/peddlers to the unwary

 

 

 

 

 

[nwcs]

Except for that MS-69 1916 cent and those MS-69 Morgans.

[michael]

Except for that MS-69 1916 cent and those MS-69 Morgans.

 

break those coins out of those holders and you are in a major loss $$$$$$$$$$ wise as plastic makes those coins quite rarified

 

 

 

 

[Houston Investor]

Definitely not - Many collectors have slabs too for the reasons I gave above.

 

Cracking nice coins out of slabs only decreases the liklihood of getting "all the money." Most potential buyers will be either hedging their bets or looking for a rip.

[michael]

absolutely not with that ms69 lincoln cent as it is worth much MUCH less raw than in plastic

 

there are others raw out there that look just as good unless you look really close with a trained eye and a powerful glass splitting hairs

 

 

[BillJones]

The bottom line is every time you crack a coin out of a holder, it's carpshoot as to what grade it will get the next time. That's the risk that the guys who use albums face, like it or not. This grading business is not nearly a cut and dried you some of you guys think.

 

AND if it's a coin like an MS-69 Lincoln cent, you are placing your financial life in your hands if you do crack it. Forgetting the risk of the coin growing spots outside the holder, getting an MS-69 on something like that is combination of luck and probably politics. Some pigs ARE more equal than others. At any rate a coin graded like that SHOULD stay in its prison. Getting back into the holder is highly doubtful IMO.