Price jumps for MS grades

[shirohniichan]

As we all know, there are huge price jumps between certain levels of US mint state coins. For example, while an MS-64 grade of a certain coin may sell for $40, in MS-65 the price may jump to $300.

 

Krause only lists prices for UNC and/or BU. Is there a rule of thumb for estimating prices of coins in gem BU grades? Do coin collectors in other countries pay big price premiums for premium grade coins like US collectors do?

 

 

 

The catalog price of this coin in UNC is somewhere around $12 to $15. How do I estimate its price in gem BU?

[gmarguli]

From what I have noticed, most foreign coins do not get a big premium in gem and super gem grades.Gold coins are probably the one exception. I've watched coins in NGC/PCGS MS67 slabs sell for very minor premiums to no premium at all over normal UNC catalog price. I remember a coin (Finnish?) that was in an NGC MS68 slab and it sold for $80 when the Krause listed it as $50 in UNC.

 

There was another German coin in PCGS MS67 that sold for under double Krause for UNC, but that coin has great toning.

 

The best "rule of thumb" is to put it at auction and be happy if it sells for a premium or keep the coin until the foreign coin collectors get caught up with high grades, which they will at some time.

[Guest]

I agree with gmarguli, or at least I hope he's right in his feeling that at some point there will be an increase in value of high grade Darkside material.

 

 

[gmarguli]

I hope there is an increase in high grade darkside stuff. I recently picked up this high grade foreign coin:

 

 

This coin is strangely familiar for some reason.

 

Anyway, I mailed it off to NGC this morning along with a monster toned Mexico 8R and some other stuff. I'll report back when I get the grade (probably 6 weeks knowing the speed of the NGC economy service ).

[gmarguli]

This Guernesey coin just got graded by NGC. They said MS67RD.

 

And they didn't bodybag my monster toned 8 reales for AT.

[Hoot]

How about posting a pic of the 8 reale? Always like nicely toned material!

 

Hoot

[gmarguli]

I'll try to take somne pictures of them and post them when they get back. Right now they are sitting in some post office.

[PQSeated]

I think the higher grade foreign coins are a cold spot right now, and I think we'll see price increases in the future once the true rarity of these coins are noticed.

[shirohniichan]

I think the higher grade foreign coins are a cold spot right now, and I think we'll see price increases in the future once the true rarity of these coins are noticed.

 

I think the buyer of my Guernsey coin is betting on just that.

[gmarguli]

Sounds like a very wise buyer. He's probably buying other superb gem 19th century foreign coins. It's great buying a coin for $60 in MS67 that sells for $40 in MS60.

[PQSeated]

I've been accquiring some higher grade foreign coins lately. I can't justify paying say for instance $50 for a MS60, when you can MS67s or higher for maybe only $100. I think we'll see significant price increases in foreigns, especially Candian coinage with the launch of the Canadian PCGS set registry. Does anyone know if PCGS plans to implement other foreign PCGS set registries in the future?

[gmarguli]

I wouldn't count on the PCGS Canadian registry being a big hit. Most Canadian coin collectors dislike slabs. They prefer the soft flip of ICCS. They also dislike the grading of PCGS/NGC who are too easy in their opinion.

 

As for cheap high grade foreign coins, it is hard to tell what will be rare and what will be common. I'm avoiding Canadian since I figure so many people collect it that they would have a better edge as to what is rare and what isn't.

 

Personally, when I'm looking to buy a superb gem foreign coin, I'm looking for the following things (but not exclusive):

 

1) Pre-1900.

 

2) Small mintages.

 

3) Nice designs.

 

4) Solid price changes in the circulated grades to unc. I don't want to see $5 in VG, $7.5 in XF, & $12.50 in unc. I'd prefer to see $5 in VG, $20 in XF, $60 in unc. That at least shows me that there is some rarity in the higher grades.

 

5) And last, but not least, I'm trying not to pay more than a 50% premium over unc in MS66 and 100% in MS67.

 

 

[shirohniichan]

You sound like one of my customers.

 

Why does NGC remain silent on the proposed Philippine coin registry? It's silence is deafening.

[gmarguli]

How about posting a pic of the 8 reale? Always like nicely toned material!

 

Here is the 8 Reales picture. I tried to play with the color a little to get it right, but I couldn't, so here is the original scan.

 

 

It's not exactly a great looking coin, is it? Of course in person the obverse is gold and red. Then around the untoned pattern it is blue and green.

 

The reverse is multicolored with gold, blue, green, red, yellow, and a few other colors.

 

I'll see if I can get someone to take a better picture of it. It is really pretty in person.

 

And while I'm showing off pictures of coins that don't come close to capturing their actual beauty, here is an Ike from the same submission.

 

 

Also had another 8 Reales that is blue and red, but it scanned as completely grey. And a nice rainbow toned 1955 proof Washington that scanned showing completely different colors.

[PQSeated]

Wow, Greg, I love that 8 Reales. The toning is so unique. Very original piece. May I ask where you obtained this beauty? That Ike is also nice, but the 8 reales takes the cake.

[gmarguli]

I purchased it off a local bid board. The seller had about 20 for sale ranging from VF to unc and most were toned. I purchased the two that were the best looking/highest grade. The other one graded MS61.

[Hoot]

Greg - Sweet coins. Thanks for posting the pics. If one fiddles a little with the color balance, the colors come bursting through. Thanks!

 

Hoot

[DWLange]

Reply to Shirohniichan,

 

This question has been answered at least once, though I don't recall in which forum. NGC does not plan to include foreign coin registries at the present time. Obviously, a case may be made that the 1903-45 Philippine coinage is not foreign, but it is perceived as such by most collectors and dealers. It would also be very difficult to score across a broad spectrum of grades, a problem with all foreign issues.

[shirohniichan]

Argh! The anti-Philippines climate here is too much for me to take! Away to the Water Cooler for me!

[Tradedollarnut]

David: he gotcha!

[Beijim]

Greg,

 

Those are two nice coins - thanks for the photos. Since I'm unfamiliar with the 8 Reales coin, I'm wondering if you'd describe what "GO" and "FR" mean on the grading label?

 

Thanks!

[shirohniichan]

The GO refers to the mint it was struck at, and the FR are the minter's initials.

[Beijim]

Cool - thank you!

[1jester]

Shiroh, I see you sold that wonderful Guernsey coin to a defector! Gmarguli, whatever you paid for it, I think you got a great deal; I love that coin.

 

Apropos the PCGS Canadian Coin Registry, we can now see that it has become quite popular, and I suppose, contrary to conventional wisdom 6 months ago, it will only increase in popularity. Prices will also jump, IMHO.

 

And PCGS also now has other Darkside registries, which are becoming more popular. I wonder where this will end?

 

Does NGC have any plans to have their own registries?

 

 

[291fifth]

It might make sense for a collector of foreign coins to start buying the very high grade uncs. now while premiums are low. Don't slab them right away, however. Wait until the market seems to evolve some. Do some checking before spending your hard earned money on slabbing that the market may not even want. Always keep in mind that you are dealing with thin, sometimes VERY thin markets. Liquidity may be a problem.

[gmarguli]

It might make sense for a collector of foreign coins to start buying the very high grade uncs. now while premiums are low. Don't slab them right away, however. Wait until the market seems to evolve some. Do some checking before spending your hard earned money on slabbing that the market may not even want. Always keep in mind that you are dealing with thin, sometimes VERY thin markets. Liquidity may be a problem.

 

I've noticed that they seem harder and harder to find in superb grades. The supply has dried up on eBay and going to shops I'm finding less and less. I'm still coming across 1900-1950 stuff (and buying it if the price is right), but not much pre-1900 stuff.

 

Personally, I'm slabbing mine slowly. The NGC $11 ($9.90 after discount) price for slabbing is great.

[Oldtrader3]

I have always liked the pre-Weimer Republic, Prussian and German states 2&5 Mark (historical and art-theme) coins. These are pretty reasonably priced, are reasonably rare, are certainly different and many are striking motif coins.