How much would YOU bid on this MS64 Grant half dollar?

[MarkFeld]

CDN bid is $235 for an MS64, $580 for an MS65 and $1350 for an MS66.

 

I will reveal my bid (which has been topped) later...

 

[WinstonWare]

I like my commems circulated and grey, but if I were collecting slabbed commems I would bid $527.27

[cpm9ball]

I like the toning on it, and it looks like it might be undergraded by a point. In order to keep from taking too big of a "hit" in the pocketbook if I was wrong, I'd bid $475.

 

Chris

[123cents]

I think you bid about $800.00.

[TerrapinWill]

Well I'll guess that you think this specimen is worthy of a higher grade....Ill say

 

$540

[TJ'S Coins]

It's a very attractive PQ example that makes the technical grade low in regard to pricing. Coins like this can easily demand a premium in line with higher grades.

 

To go along, I would bid $500 and try to sell for $575.

[jgrinz]

Toned commems bring mad money

you bid 800 - 900 ??

 

You said it was already beat so sale price when done 1400 ish

 

my - Which with Mark doesn't mean much

 

 

 

[BillJones]

If the dark patches on the reverse (on the cabin roof and in the trees) are "carbon spots" I would not be a strong bidder. I hate obvious carbon spots. They take the fun out of the coin for me.

 

As for paying a zillion dollar premium for toning, I'll leave that to those worship that stuff. If the coin looks the same in person as does in the photo, I'm not very impressed with it.

 

Sorry ...

[Broc Mitchell]

This coins is active on Heritage. It is currently bid to $1610 which includes the buyer's premium ($1400 without). Using the zoom feature, one can see the reverse is littered with what appears to be strong carbon spots. The obverse toning is blotchy and unnatural looking (I am not saying the coin is AT). With that said, my opinion is someone is putting out $1300+ too much money for this one. My only guess is perhaps they feel they can dip the coin and get it back in a 67 holder? The spots on the reverse are so extensive I could see this as a slightly realistic possibility.

 

-Broc

[James_OldeTowne]

The eye-appeal is above average, but not fantastic. I'd bid between 64 and 65 money, knowing full well that some fool out there would outbid me.

[TerrapinWill]

This coins is active on Heritage. It is currently bid to $1610 which includes the buyer's premium ($1400 without). Using the zoom feature, one can see the reverse is littered with what appears to be strong carbon spots. The obverse toning is blotchy and unnatural looking (I am not saying the coin is AT). With that said, my opinion is someone is putting out $1300+ too much money for this one. My only guess is perhaps they feel they can dip the coin and get it back in a 67 holder? The spots on the reverse are so extensive I could see this as a slightly realistic possibility.

 

-Broc

 

to each their own......but thats just nuts.

[MikeInFL]

Tough to say for sure without seeing the coin in-hand, but the coin seems to be attractive for a 64, so I would be willing to pay more than 64 money for it. However, it is not what I would call a monster, so I'd stop well short of 65 money. Using that logic, I would spend about $400 for the coin....Mike

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not a collector of commemoratives, and I have no idea how rare/desireable the Grants are with toning like this.

[MarkFeld]

This coins is active on Heritage. It is currently bid to $1610 which includes the buyer's premium ($1400 without). Using the zoom feature, one can see the reverse is littered with what appears to be strong carbon spots. The obverse toning is blotchy and unnatural looking (I am not saying the coin is AT). With that said, my opinion is someone is putting out $1300+ too much money for this one. My only guess is perhaps they feel they can dip the coin and get it back in a 67 holder? The spots on the reverse are so extensive I could see this as a slightly realistic possibility.

 

-Broc

Now that the cat is out of the bag.... I bid $1300 hammer on it. Whatever "carbon spots" people are seeing are either far less conspicuous in person or, more likely, are toning spots, instead. I bid as high as I did because, to my recollection, it is THE most beautifully toned Grant I have ever seen and I'd probably prefer it to just about any MS65 or MS66 on the planet. That said, I still had to draw the line somewhere.

 

Later I will start another thread on another coin for which you folks will probably think is even more insane.

[TerrapinWill]

Well if Mark bid $1300 then that is probably what it is worth.

[lkenefic]

 

 

Interesting thread Mark...L

[TJ'S Coins]

To me this is a very nice coin but not at the prices being bid on it. It is one of the nicer Grant's that I have seen. I'll defer to Mark's judgment and opinion since he has seen many other examples and grades than me.

 

Toned coins, which I do enjoy, are not easy to predict what someone will pay. The value is definitely in the eyes of the beholder. Check out these examples from other recent auctions.

 

1958 D Franklin Half MS65 Monday

 

1958 D Franklin Half MS65

 

I was outbid on both of these. My personal preference was for the second one that was lower than the first but about double what I would have expected. In white, this is a $50 coin. The toning premiums for these examples are 5-6 times that. The market is very active and eager for nicely toned material.

 

Given the examples of these two Franklin's. The bid on the Grant is not exorbitantly out of line, just out of my budget

[TerrapinWill]

The whole toning thing just drives me crazy. I mean I like the look of the coins and can understand there being a premium. But the moon money people are willing to pay for the toning must certainly encourage the doctors....no?

[TomB]

The whole toning thing just drives me crazy. I mean I like the look of the coins and can understand their being a premium. But the moon money people are willing to pay for the toning must certainly encourage the doctors....no?

Anything that folks will pay a premium for will encourange others to manipulate coinage. This includes better dates (counterfeits), better mint marks (altered coins), wild toning (artificial toning), blast white surfaces (dip and re-dip), cameo proofs (artificial frosting), blazing gold (dip and re-dip), slabbed coinage (counterfeit slabs) and no doubt other alterations. Somehow, many collectors have a fixation with artificial toning and entirely neglect many other problems. I don't understand that, but it happens.

[WinstonWare]

Good point Tom. I may have to save that quote...

[MikeInFL]

CDN bid is $235 for an MS64, $580 for an MS65 and $1350 for an MS66.

 

I bid $1300 hammer on it.

 

Has someone kidnapped the Mark Feld I thought I knew?

[TJ'S Coins]

The whole toning thing just drives me crazy. I mean I like the look of the coins and can understand their being a premium. But the moon money people are willing to pay for the toning must certainly encourage the doctors....no?

Anything that folks will pay a premium for will encourange others to manipulate coinage. This includes better dates (counterfeits), better mint marks (altered coins), wild toning (artificial toning), blast white surfaces (dip and re-dip), cameo proofs (artificial frosting), blazing gold (dip and re-dip), slabbed coinage (counterfeit slabs) and no doubt other alterations. Somehow, many collectors have a fixation with artificial toning and entirely neglect many other problems. I don't understand that, but it happens.

 

Thank you Tom for your insightful, as always, comments (thumbs u

 

The appreciation of toning is such a subjective factor when it comes to coins that I think it feeds the intensity of feelings when it comes to one's personal preference. Why coins tone naturally one way and not another or differently depending on storage conditions consumes much study and speculation. Some like mottled toning, others do not. Others prefer concentric ring rainbow toning. Multiple colors over booming mint luster is another preference for some. Still others like monochromatic rim toning or pieces that are fully covered in one or two shades. The options are endless. One factor is simply taste. A person likes it or not. Some are willing to pay handsomely for the opportunity to own such pieces while others prefer the alterations such as the dip, re-dip, artificial frosting or even outrageous AT toning. Others just want a nice looking coin to add to their collection. There is something deeply personal about one's own tastes and perhaps we don't like it when people question our likes or dislikes.

 

Another factor is jealousy. I'm amazed at some of the beautiful toned coins that are available. Asking prices definitely rise according to the toning pattern and quality of the underlying coin. Never rule out the factor that if someone has pieces nicer than another, the one who does not have the same quality might express displeasure by calling into question the toning, the coin, the TPG, the dealer, the owner, whatever. It's simply part of the dark side of human nature.

 

A final thought about Tom's observations is that many of the other alterations are meant to deceive. Toning is a natural process which can be accelerated or done artificially to either the good or detriment of the coin. Since it can be so difficult to discern, even among the fine numismatists on these boards, it becomes a topic that creates friction. Many want quality, original, naturally aged coins. Many are not as selective. A few are out to deceive and some collectors don't care as long as they "like" what they buy that can be a problem. We appreciate it when a counterfeiter is caught or when a fake is exposed or an altered coin is revealed before someone is hurt. There is obvious right and wrong with these issues. Ironically, it is colorful toning that leads us into one of the gray areas of collecting

 

My

 

 

[cpm9ball]

CDN bid is $235 for an MS64, $580 for an MS65 and $1350 for an MS66.

 

I bid $1300 hammer on it.

 

Has someone kidnapped the Mark Feld I thought I knew?

 

Numismaticus Metamorphosis?

 

Chris

[IGWT]

Not enough to win.

[TerrapinWill]

The whole toning thing just drives me crazy. I mean I like the look of the coins and can understand their being a premium. But the moon money people are willing to pay for the toning must certainly encourage the doctors....no?

Anything that folks will pay a premium for will encourange others to manipulate coinage. This includes better dates (counterfeits), better mint marks (altered coins), wild toning (artificial toning), blast white surfaces (dip and re-dip), cameo proofs (artificial frosting), blazing gold (dip and re-dip), slabbed coinage (counterfeit slabs) and no doubt other alterations. Somehow, many collectors have a fixation with artificial toning and entirely neglect many other problems. I don't understand that, but it happens.

 

Thank you Tom for your insightful, as always, comments (thumbs u

 

The appreciation of toning is such a subjective factor when it comes to coins that I think it feeds the intensity of feelings when it comes to one's personal preference. Why coins tone naturally one way and not another or differently depending on storage conditions consumes much study and speculation. Some like mottled toning, others do not. Others prefer concentric ring rainbow toning. Multiple colors over booming mint luster is another preference for some. Still others like monochromatic rim toning or pieces that are fully covered in one or two shades. The options are endless. One factor is simply taste. A person likes it or not. Some are willing to pay handsomely for the opportunity to own such pieces while others prefer the alterations such as the dip, re-dip, artificial frosting or even outrageous AT toning. Others just want a nice looking coin to add to their collection. There is something deeply personal about one's own tastes and perhaps we don't like it when people question our likes or dislikes.

 

Another factor is jealousy. I'm amazed at some of the beautiful toned coins that are available. Asking prices definitely rise according to the toning pattern and quality of the underlying coin. Never rule out the factor that if someone has pieces nicer than another, the one who does not have the same quality might express displeasure by calling into question the toning, the coin, the TPG, the dealer, the owner, whatever. It's simply part of the dark side of human nature.

 

A final thought about Tom's observations is that many of the other alterations are meant to deceive. Toning is a natural process which can be accelerated or done artificially to either the good or detriment of the coin. Since it can be so difficult to discern, even among the fine numismatists on these boards, it becomes a topic that creates friction. Many want quality, original, naturally aged coins. Many are not as selective. A few are out to deceive and some collectors don't care as long as they "like" what they buy that can be a problem. We appreciate it when a counterfeiter is caught or when a fake is exposed or an altered coin is revealed before someone is hurt. There is obvious right and wrong with these issues. Ironically, it is colorful toning that leads us into one of the gray areas of collecting

 

My

 

 

Interesting take. You're right of course that in the end it comes down to what do you like and how much are you willing to pay for it. Your point about jealousy is also probably true, though rarely talked about. I couldnt point to a specific example right now, but it's not all that difficult to see the jealousy in the posts of some when toned coins are being discussed.

 

The bottom line for me has always been collect what you like and like what you collect.

[MarkFeld]

CDN bid is $235 for an MS64, $580 for an MS65 and $1350 for an MS66.

 

I bid $1300 hammer on it.

 

Has someone kidnapped the Mark Feld I thought I knew?

 

Numismaticus Metamorphosis?

 

Chris

I have been known to make crazy bids and/or pay insane prices on occasion - it's just that I don't usually post the information publicly.

[cpm9ball]

CDN bid is $235 for an MS64, $580 for an MS65 and $1350 for an MS66.

 

I bid $1300 hammer on it.

 

Has someone kidnapped the Mark Feld I thought I knew?

 

Numismaticus Metamorphosis?

 

Chris

I have been known to make crazy bids and/or pay insane prices on occasion

 

I can't say that I haven't been in your shoes. Sometimes you see something that you just have to own. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn't become a habit.

 

Chris