Let's Go South of the Border

[rbrown4]

Here is an 1861 C.H. o Mexico 2 Reales.

M

 

Let's see some other "South of the Border Coins"

 

Rey

 

 

 

 

 

[bsshog40]

I don't know much about these Rey but it looks reale nice!!!

[rbrown4]

I changed the images on the 2 Reale above to show their true look.

 

Here is also the same year, 1861 but the 1/2 Reale.

 

Rey

 

[Stanley]

 

 

[rbrown4]

Stan,

 

Beautiful coin.

 

Rey

[Stanley]

Thank you

 

Do you think its real?

[rbrown4]

I am my no means an expert on these. The first image looks odd, but the bottom images look nice. To me all the right details are there for the coin. I would say yes.

 

Rey

[Stanley]

I’m no expert either.

The top image was taken in my kitchen under a florescent daylight bulb. The bottom image is the same except I auto balanced the color. The background is supposed to be white.

 

[TwoKopeiki]

Stan, very nice Hermosillo 8 Reales. Check on both sides of the middle bottom ray and you should see the "dragon teeth" - anti-counterfeit device that came with standardizing dies for all of the Mexican mints.

 

Here are a few of mine:

 

1849 San Luis Potosi Mint:

 

1843 Mexico City Mint:

 

1826 Zacatecas Mint:

 

1842 Guanajuato Mint:

 

1857 Chihuahua Mint:

 

~Roman

 

 

[World Colonial]

This coin is actually 1861 Mo CH. Mo is the mint mark for Mexico City and CH are the assayers initials. This is a nice specimen but is the most common date and mint combination for the denomination. (It is the only 2R that comes up for sale in high grade with any frequency.)

 

Of the five denominations (1/2, 1, 2, 4, 8), the 4R is by far the scarcest and the 8R by far the most common. (There are many scarce dates for the 8R but more of them are common.) Of the other three denominations, they appear to be about equally scarce though I think the 1/2R might be slightly more common. The reverse on your coin is typical of the weak strike that I have seen on many of these issues, even in higher grades.

 

The only reference book I have ever seen for these issues is "Resplendores" for the 8R. Ponterio occasionally offers it on eBay for about $125.

 

I have three of these in mint state (no pictures), one each of the 1/2, 4, and 8.

[Silvereagle82-migration]

Unfortunately I have no "gold" from Mexico ..... but I do have this prize historical silver

 

1768MO-MF 8 Reale (NGC AU-55)

 

[rbrown4]

Thanks for the information on the Reales. I have the following but have not imaged them all. Most are Mint state with a couple of AUs. Will post some pics over the next few days.

 

8 Reales - 1874, 1888, 1894, 1897

4 Reales - 1863

2 Reales - 1861, 1851 and 1826

1 Reale - 1826

1/2 Reale - 1861

 

Rey

[World Colonial]

Thanks for the information on the Reales. I have the following but have not imaged them all. Most are Mint state with a couple of AUs. Will post some pics over the next few days.

 

8 Reales - 1874, 1888, 1894, 1897

4 Reales - 1863

2 Reales - 1861, 1851 and 1826

1 Reale - 1826

1/2 Reale - 1861

 

Rey

 

If the coins that you have that are mint state include the minors, I would consider getting them graded. I cannot remember if I have seen an 1863 4R for sale before but that one would be the first that I would try. Check out prices on Heritage and try to get access to Ponterio's prices if you are interested. The prices have been all over the place in my experience from $50 for an NGC AU-50 (a Teletrade coin and way too low in my opinion) to about $2000 for a raw mint state in one of the Ponterio auctions. Mine is an 1847 Go-PM NGC MS-61. It has a population of two but these are actually the same coin. All of the others that are in the census have a pop of 1 in high grade I believe. This is a very rare denomination in mint state or near mint state and very under rated in today's market in my opinion. The same applies to many or most of the 1/2, 1 and 2. You can send me a PM if you have any specific questions.

[TwoKopeiki]

Here's one of my favorites:

 

One Real from Mexico City:

 

 

Here are a few select pieces from the War of Independence period:

 

1814 Guadalajara (no-dot-before-HISPAN variety):

 

 

1816 Durango:

 

 

1-Real sized double-counterstamped issue with Insurgent counterstamp S.C.M. (Soberano Congreso Mexicano) on one side and C.M.S. on the other (either a later hacienda stamp, or perhaps means Comandancia Militar Suriana - no solid information to support either):

 

 

~Roman

[rbrown4]

Nice one Silvereagle.

 

Roman - another great group of coins you have shared.

 

Here is the 4 Reale referred to above. Unfortunately this is one that is not in mint state condition, but AU instead.

 

 

Rey

 

 

 

[TwoKopeiki]

That's a nice 4 bits, you have there, Rey! Like World Colonial said - 4 Reales were much scarcer than 8 Reales due to smaller mintage figures, as well as having to widely circulate at the time.

[World Colonial]

That coin is really close to uncirculated or maybe so. I think it is at least an AU-58. (There appears to be some light wear on the reverse in the eagle feathers.) If I owned it and it does not look cleaned, I would send it in for grading.

 

This coin does not have any sales records in high grade that I can find, so I have no idea what it is worth. Generally, I believe mint mark Mo (Mexico City) to be the most common because it was the primary mint, but that is only speculation on my part. You should contact Ponterio & Associates or Heritage for an estimate (that is my source for prior auction results). In any event, a very nice specimen of a rare denomination.

[World Colonial]

That's a nice 4 bits, you have there, Rey! Like World Colonial said - 4 Reales were much scarcer than 8 Reales due to smaller mintage figures, as well as having to widely circulate at the time.

 

Yes, I believe that contrary to the usual coinage patterns, the 8R had a higher mintage that the smaller denominations. The reason would be that most 8R were used for export and international trade payments while the minors circulated locally. This should have been particularly true after 1870 when the decimal coinage replaced the old fractional system. The 8R continued until 1897 and while I assume it would have circulated concurrently with the peso, it would not have been necessary for local commerce. I believe the high number of specimens and high quality ones for most of these date and mintmark combinations bear that out.

[rbrown4]

Thank you very much for the information and the tips. I will definitely explore the quality and grading potential of this coin.

 

Here is the oldest date 8 Reale I have, 1786

 

Rey

 

 

[rbrown4]

Here is a pair of 1883 One Centavos. The reverse of the one on the right has some distinct die clashes evident. I added a larger single image of this reverse showing the die clashes as well.

 

[TwoKopeiki]

Cool centavos! I really like the die clash.

 

~Roman

[rbrown4]

Thanks Roman, not much value in those coins but finding the die clash makes it better.

 

Here is another detail that I just noticed while continuing to go through my Mexico and other coins. This 1851 G PF 2 Reales has some strong doubling on the Letters and Date on the Obverse, starting with the 5 and going to the right. Is this a common occurance for that time period? This is the only one that I have that I have seen this.

 

Rey