Henri Charriere

Is this someone's quaint way of saying I ordered pizza and a great big strawberry shake, for nothing? (I should've listened to Lancek.)

1 hour ago, EdG_Ohio said:

Type or cut/paste into google or search engine "what year was the VDB penny" and you'll easily find your answer. Also try NGCs Coin Explorer, a wealth of information at your fingertips.

At the risk of reinforcing my rank amateur status are you suggesting a feature that has been a standard accessory on every Lincoln from 1918 to date was arbitrarily filled in on some dies and, if so, to what purpose?  This is a veritable slap in the face to Victor David Brenner and his progeny.

I want a second opinion!  Where's Coinbuf???

P.S.  NGC's Coin Explorer addresses only MS and PF Wheaties and Lincoln Memorial Cents; Google is annoyingly non-committal on this issue. Where's Coinbuf?

[Q.A.:  Do you think the reverse side of the 1943 would have a larger than normal sized mint-mark over the dome without examining a photo and solely on my say-so?

RWB:  I believe I would, yes.]

On 3/4/2021 at 7:17 AM, J P Mashoke said:

Here is a fun one I got in my change one day at the store. To bad it has no date showing it might be worth something.

[Judging by the minimal wear on Lincoln's countenance and overall condition, we may be looking at an error -- which still has value to a collector of errors despite absence of a date -- that may very well have been minted in the last few years.] 

1 hour ago, RWB said:

"MS" or "Mint State" just means the coin has not been in circulation -- it is "Uncirculated" (and older but more accurately descriptive term than "Mint State").

Any wear indicates the coin has been used in commerce so it might be called "About Uncirculated" or "Extremely Fine" or "Very Fine" depending on the amount of wear.

True indeed.

Unfortunately, I am inclined to agree.

When's the last time you saw one or received one in change?

And yet, as rarely seen or used as it has been, it is worth little over its face value, if that. 

I would advise the OP to hold onto it.  The only people who appreciate this coin -- and its cousin the "Ike" are children who have never seen one much less spent one. Funny how the so-called "coin shortage" they keep talking about does not include the halves or dollars.

That it is, but I would caution against attempting to abate the abrasions (until the art of conservation has progressed enough to inspire complete confidence). A real jewel, nevertheless.

1 hour ago, Lancek said:

Yup, green is bad.  And keep it away from other coins.  It can spread to any it comes in direct contact with.  Lot of decades old holder were PVC.  Collectors liked then because you could see both sides to the coin.  But today, thanks to lot of those coins turning green, we know PVC plastics are a bad thing.  A little green on the surface starts first.  I call it green slime.  At that stage it can usually be removed with a short acetone bath.

Saw a collection of Morgans at auction.  Every date, every MM.  All in a book with PVC pages and pockets.  Bought a '78 8 tail feather.  Just starting to get some slime.  Soaked in acetone.  Green stuff came off.  Looked great, sent it in for grading, came back an MS 63 and is one of my favorite coins.

If the green stuff gets hard, like it looks to be on your dime.  Then collectable value is likely shot.  That's referred to as verdigris. It has quite often eaten into the coin and removing it could leave big holes.  Making the coin look even worse.

You can buy clear flips today that are safe.  Look for "unplastisized" vinyl.  Or anything that say archival, or museum quality.

With all due respect... verdigris is but one form of patina.  I would like to suggest the OP, whether a coin collector or not, investigate these further on a search engine such as Google to get a full grasp of what each is.  There are many causes of such environmental damage and familiarizing yourself with each will help you understand how and why these phenomena occur and the best course of action to take.

50 minutes ago, scarp9603 said:

Is an 1874 $3 AU53 PL worth a premium over a straight graded AU53?

NGC has only graded one 1874 $3 as AU53 PL, and I can't find a price estimate for an AU53 PL in the NGC price guide

Why not speak to someone at Douglas Winter Numismatics (RareGoldCoins.com) or Stacks-Bowers Galleries (StacksBowers.com) on the West Coast (California) at 800.458.4646, or East Coast (New York) at 800.566.2580, or by e-mail at Info@StacksBowers.com, or StacksBowers.com

Ah... the price guide.  Since when is a compilation the go-to authority on all things coin-ish?

I have spent thousands on Roosters, and guess what? Not a one has appeared in any of the highly-vaunted price guides of TPGS.  It appears a symbiotic relationship exists between Heritage Auctions and N.G.C.

It wasn't until I stumbled onto a re-run of Pawn Stars that I inadvertently discovered why. An NGC expert (whose specific specialty is Ancients) Rick relies upon for advice made an off-hand remark to a customer who thought the coin he brought in for examination surely had to be worth much more than the range quoted by the expert who, without missing a beat, informed the disappointed customer, in substance, that Heritage Auctions attracts a world-wide audience which [presumably] makes the prices realized there a far better indicator of Fair Market Value. 

(If anyone wishes to clarify or refute this, do feel free to offer your take on this.)

17 hours ago, JT2 said:

i wouldnt spend it...i would burry it in the back yard and forget about it.  it isnt real

A genuine '43, or counterfeit?

13 hours ago, Lancek said:

Gold is a very stable metal.  Due to a full layer of outer electrons on its atom.  A gold coin buried 100 years will still look very much like a gold coin.  So, unfortunately, I have my doubts.

I am afraid Lancek hit this on the head.  I don't know what this. But I certainly know what it is not. And we still need a shot of that other side -- and the presence of any extant reeding. Guess we will all have to be patient.

[Unfortunately, this is about as far as the Moderators will let this conversation go.  Times change, people change.  How you feel about this matter depends on how old you are, your knowledge of the state's history and where you were in the 1950's and 1960's. 

There are whole blocs of people who cannot vote by law in Florida and the shenanigans in Philly whereby voting districts recorded 100% voting for a single candidate are legion.

I will return to Mississippi (and Alabama) someday -- but only with my wife in the front seat and my wife in the back.  Gentlemen, I must go now before someone asks what any of this has to do with the 1921 Peace Dollar.]

On 3/3/2021 at 6:42 AM, J P Mashoke said:

Thanks Woods, Kinda funny you say that My granddaughter came by one day and saw me struggling looking at my coins with a magnifying glass.

She said Papa you need a USB microscope for that and gave me one the next day. I cant believe what I was missing. Now I can see and record the errors.

Like this die scratch around George's neck

[Having been eviscerated in these columns for examining my coins with a 30-power loupe, it pleases me to no end a fellow member unabashedly admits to using a microscope! With your extraordinary visual aid in tow, comes a mystery... if in fact the break you cite on Monticello's east "wall," is in fact just that, why are there steps leading up to to it much like those at the main entrance?  (One day, I hope to get to the bottom of exactly who those ghostly figures are gazing out of the windows of the left portico of Monticello -- or whether it is simply an illusion.) The photographs you have provided to illustrate your point are hands-down the finest I have ever viewed on this site! (I wish some of our seasoned veterans were here to see this for myself.)

Just now, Quintus Arrius said:

I concur.  Bailiff, call the next case.

43 minutes ago, JKK said:

It might look like a 4, but until there's an image worth looking at, it's a 1. Everything about it looks like a worn teens penny.

I concur.  Bailiff, call the next case.

The "right" weight -- despite possible acid etching, serious alteration, and a harsh cleaning!  What an I missing here?  Maybe it's also had a hip replacement, too.  It's almost as old as I am.

Tip from a rank amateur: Me.  The older a coin gets, the more difficult diagnosing its symptoms becomes. Elsewhere on this site I made mention of all the one-cent pieces littering NYC streets paved with asphalt.  I defy anyone to correctly diagnose an "assault by asphalt-embedded coins." And one more thing... there has to be a cut-off date for coins damaged by environmental forces or chemical agents.  It may be interesting, but it's irrelevant. Many such coins are essentially worthless.

3 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'm not an expert on pricing, but what are you asking ?  If additional fees for a COA are worth something ?  I don't think actual sales prices usually includes this.  Sometimes its necessary, sometimes its not.

Where is the monopolistic behavior entering into it ?

I, perhaps, bit off more than I could chew.  What the young gentleman, who specializes in Ancients at NGC was saying was whatever the auction prices realized at sale at an auction house like Heritage's dictated because they appeal to a vast audience rather than an unusually high price that just happened to have been realized in one sale.  Come to think of it, that was what the NGC expert was maintaining, and it

On 2/28/2021 at 11:03 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It was a bit "cleaner", yes.  Was it $1,500 or so cleaner which I believe was the diference in price ?  That's the $64,000 question (or $1,500 question  ). 

Remember, there's a huge jump in price from MS66 to MS67 for the 1923-D.  I've seen a bunch of 1924, 1927, and 1928 commons on GC in recent months go off at MS66 and MS67 levels, with MS66 CACs going up another 20-30% of the way to the 67 level.  All these coins (including the 1923-D) trade about the same in these conditions, give-or-take a bit.

made sense.

Yes, you, and I, may have been prepared to go higher but our stratospheric bid is not FMV, only a benchmark of what had been achieved for a specific coin on a specific occasion under what very well may have been a fluke situation.  Cooler heads usually prevail and it is their incremental bidding that counts in auctions -- rather than the price for a coin that just happened to wind up way out there because someone just "had to have it."

In consideration of how FMV is really determined, I must withdraw my objection.  There will always be an upper limit set but it by itself does not establish market value.  I suppose the same could be said for the reverse case where no one's bidding approaches the reserve price af which point lack of sufficient demand is reflected in the negative prices a perfectly good coin fails to achieve and the coin may very well be withdrawn from sale.

1 hour ago, Lancek said:

Corrosion like that on copper has usually eaten into the surface.  Nothing you or anybody at NCS could do that would make a difference.

Sometimes removing it just leaves bigger holes.

From NCS section, "there are certain problems that cannot be remedied, such as corrosion, wear, scratches,"

[Agreed; incidentally, now that I have less Ignorers than VKurtB's got followers, can we bury the hatchet and become friends?)

6 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

I haven't watched PAWN STARS much lately but didn't realize they brought in actual NGC folks.  Interesting.....

Ultimately, you can't argue with actual sales prices, from Heritage, GC, or other places.  I would throw out Ebay and Etsy and other sites that aren't frequented by numismatists and serious coin collectors.

Not to belabor the point but if I purchase a certified coin from a European consortium of dealers and a proof-of-purchase and/or physical ownership is demanded before it can be placed in a collector's Set Registry should not that price paid -- even if prices run higher elsewhere -- count for something in the Realm of the Goddess of Fair Market Value? The alternative is monopolistic.  Am I to believe that numismatics begins and ends at one auction house's door? Where do you, RWB and VKurtB stand on this.

1 hour ago, AcesKings said:

This little number has a lot going for it.  How many coins bear italic writing?  Rumor has it I was born on the 17th day of September, today called Constitution Day.  Quick Quiz: Q: name one site where your constitutional rights as enshrined in the amendments enumerated in the Bill of Rights do not apply?  A:  this Forum. Don't believe me with three Warnings to his credit? Check the Guidelines, and take it from me:  they mean business!  Anyone who ends their spiel with, "This stops now," means business!

On 3/5/2021 at 4:25 PM, AcesKings said:

Hard to believe those three little Capitalized letters (with periods) on the bottom reverse caused such a furor.  For those new to the hobby, see if you can spot them with the unaided eye recessed.(incused) bas-relief, deep within the truncated ridge of Lincoln's right shoulder at the bottom of the obverse side..Now think, would you be able to do such a magnificent job of producing hundreds of thousands of them speedily, under great pressure?  The 1909-s V.D.B. in what was known then as Gem Brilliant Unciculated condition was the first coin I ever0 bought with earnings as a delivery boy, aged 15, at $1.25/hr. + tips from Stack's for $200. Needless to say, my mother was incredulous: "You paid two hundred dollars -- for a penny!" I certainly did. A bright red beautiful one cent piece in a paper flip which I sold years later after they had taken silver out of coins, and the thrill for me, was gone.

I wish I had something nice to say about this 2016 Mercury Dime Centennial Gold Coin which arrived in a nice presentation box and dust cover, but I do not. My objection? Two things: its finish, described as a "Business Strike," a fancy term meaning a regular strike for circulation and a disappointing lack of detail. Forget the cigar. I took one look at this and thought, I want my money back! Now I live, breathe and dream Roosters... exclusively!

On 2/28/2021 at 11:03 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It was a bit "cleaner", yes.  Was it $1,500 or so cleaner which I believe was the diference in price ?  That's the $64,000 question (or $1,500 question  ). 

Remember, there's a huge jump in price from MS66 to MS67 for the 1923-D.  I've seen a bunch of 1924, 1927, and 1928 commons on GC in recent months go off at MS66 and MS67 levels, with MS66 CACs going up another 20-30% of the way to the 67 level.  All these coins (including the 1923-D) trade about the same in these conditions, give-or-take a bit.

Thanks. When a customer told the NGC guy Rick from Pawn Stars relies on for an expert opinion that he believed the piece he brought in for examination was worth much more than the assessment offered, the NGC guy (specializing in Ancients) cited reliance by the numismatic community on prices realized at auctions -- he mentioned Heritage -- as a determinant of FMV and not starry eyed people [like me] for whom price, at times, is no object. You cannot argue with common sense.