Henri Charriere

I would have to take another look at the pertinent section of law Conder101 provided me. If memory serves, the coins were legally exempt.

I don't know. . . I don't know. That order was placed quite some time ago. This never happened with any other purchase I had ever made from an overseas source. [I will make a note of the info you provided. Tks!]

No, contrary to what I was told over the phone, the shipment arrived...and there was a return address as well as documents stating exactly what the contents were.

I provided an account of what had occurred on another thread in early 2020, I believe. The dealer I purchased the coins from was affiliated with MA-SHOPS. I received a notice one day saying my shipment, sent via DHL was returned for unspecified reasons. I shrugged my shoulders and simply suggested they use any other means of available transport. They chose FedEx. In due course, I got a call from FedEx in Newark stating a package with no return address had arrived, which also lacked documentation. They proceeded to ask me my name, DOB, SSN, address, whether I was acting at someone else's behest, etc., and quickly considering my options on my feet, knew they were lying but what could I do? They were sending me forms from CBP to fill out, which were even more intrusive, with the warning that failure to comply would result in the shipment being returned in 5 days. I went to a FedEx office where a clerk produced hard copies of the 4-page form e-mailed to me, filled them out in a city park, photographed them on the pavement, returned to the office where they faxed them in, free of charge. I asked the clerk if she had ever seen such forms before, or had encountered a situation like mine. She said she had not. The shipment arrived at my house and, not surprisingly, it bore a quite legible, plain-as-day, return address and contained all the required documentation placed in a standard mailing bag firmly taped to the exterior. Weeks later, I got a bill for $33. I'd've had a better shot at understanding what for had it been written in cuneiform. It was fellow member Conder101 who, having read my account, helpfully stated the action taken was wrong and provided me with the relevant law to support his assertion. Human nature being what it is, I was so pleased to get the shipment of top-tier Roosters which instantly rocketed me to first place on the west coast, that I let the matter ride figuring that the fee extorted from me paled into comparison with the total cost of the acquisition. I also inadvertently realized something I had kept to myself since: every shipment I had ever received previously from abroad (none to my recollection, via FedEx) stated the contents were "Documents." This is not exactly untruthful. The questioned package, as I recall stated, "collectible coins." Those who detained the package knew that and a simple x-ray would have confirmed that fact, but why any of this happened, and the pointed questions inquiring as to whether I was acting as an individual or business, and if not a business, at whose behest, threw me off. When I indicated the coins had numismatic value, thus the term "collectible," they had no idea what I meant. They asked me exactly how many such collectibles I had acquired from abroad previously. (I would rather not disclose that here as my reply would tend to incriminate me.) I am only happy this came at the conclusion to my set-building endeavor. I found the entire experience to be quite intimidating as I never anticipated being asked questions like that over the phone, by a perfect stranger, there and then, and again on forms with sand running out of the time clock... Not exactly Wells Fargo Hoard-related but a cautionary tale for those who do business internationally. (In all fairness, many of MA-SHOPS affiliates invoices contain wording I had previously never paid attention to. Something to the effect that they are not responsible for any VAT or fees exacted on the receiving end.) Anyway, I have the complete documentation attending every purchase I have ever made [including packages that required a signature which was apparently overlooked and placed in my mailbox.] 🐓

Hoards of gold are waltzed thru Customs and welcomed with open arms but ol' Q.A. places an order with an internationally recognized coin emporium and his three gold Roosters are seized at Newark and he is ordered to submit to an interrogation over the phone, or else the Roosters go back in five days. I don't get it; I guess I never will. (Oh, and I had to pay some type of tariff for $33. I still wonder what that was all about.)

This talk of mania and how people would react is probably going to be covered in Sociology classes for years to come. It brings to mind that scene when someone on the floor of the stock exchange [in the 1983 movie, "Trading Places"] exclaims in a state of excitement: "Look, the Duke Brothers are trying to corner the market!" With a crop report in hand, the Dukes had every reason to believe was authentic, they proceeded to buy with confidence----until Eddie Murphy and Dan Ackroyd spoke up at a strategic moment, and shouted Sell! resulting in a massive sell-off and unrecoverable losses for the Dukes who also suffered the dignity of hearing a member order their seats on the exchange be sold. Probably the same kind of mindless reactive behavior with Bernie Madoff. Everybody hears about the investments being made by prominent people and nobody wants to be left out. Human nature. Who can blame them? [I have fought the inclination to retread this thread and single out the few who spoke out with such self-assured confidence in defense of crypto: "What say ye now, ye of such unabashed great faith?" but believe they have suffered enough.]

Eric Adams, the mayor of New York City said if he won the election (which he did) he wanted to be paid in crypto currency. I never heard anything after that initial news release.

Looks like I am going to have to be Seattle Slew here, leave the pack behind, and play a little devil's advocate. I believe I have our error guy pegged to a T. He doesn't mean to be abrasive or an annoyance and anyone who takes umbrage with him misses the point. This is a gentlemen endowed with a circumscribed set of social skills with which to deal with everyone on an equal basis from the loitering lurker to the steady scholar. He enjoys the interaction. He means no harm. He is most assuredly not trying to scam anyone. He just, is, that's all. One is free to take him at face value; he can only learn by jousting. True, he is very dogged and persistent but with feedback he becomes more adept. He is able to better find his way around. No offense meant; none taken. He is his own unique personality. No one is obligated to engage him. I do because I do not detect any maliciousness on his part. He's paid his dues. He's at home here. I, for one, am going to continue to treat him with kid gloves. Who knows... one day someone'll jump on the Board and say, "Hey, remember the error guy? You're not gonna believe what he came up with!" I am ready to give him the benefit of the doubt and can only hope others do as well. After all, he is one of us.

It is my understanding that some well-known celebrities are being sued because they promoted or otherwise endorsed a "product." I can't see being liable for something no one, basically, knew anything about. Caveat emptor!

Yes, of course! I am just being obstinate!

Whatever the grade assigned, I believe (not knowing the first thing about these coins) that the cost of authentication and certification, and attendant costs----something that has been explored in depth by members on this Forum, would greatly exceed the value of the coin as to make the effort economically unfeasible. There are some who would urge you to do so; I am not one of them. I take no especial pleasure in reveling in the adversities needlessly experienced by others.

I've waited long enough to re-use this line: "At first the gentleman was enthralled, then he submitted the coin, and was appalled!

[Breaking News... Two, count 'em, 2 - 1907 High Wire acts, both NGC MS-65, pop 145/32, NGC price guide: 44K, current price: 47K @ HA.]

Maybe, maybe, but some of them were downright gorgeous what with the intricate engravings and bright orange colors. I no longer remember if they were available in "horse-blanket" versions, but those would have been positively astounding!

You have to admit, @Sandon had gone through a lot of time and effort to provide you with a well-reasoned, balanced response. I am prepared to make you an attractive offer... Since it appears the cards are stacked against you insofar as your coin displaying a distinguishing feature which would merit a premium over and above its face value, how would a bicentennial Ike dollar (1776-1976) masquerading as an AU sound? I have a few and would be happy to pick out the best of the lot and send it to you, free of charge. This way, you can keep the equine given to inexplicable expectorations should the tide of numismatic history change and your discovery be deemed a heretofore unrecognized variety, and you can take your rightful, overdue place among the Partricks and Hansens. Think of it as an early Christmas gift from your fellow members at NGC.

I do not know, but I would be happy to replace this coin, with the Glaring Defect of some kind, with a problem-free coin, free of charge.

Man I love this place!

Nice rosey tone on the obv paired with a nice tawny tone on the reverse. Great stuff!

Respectfully, you've posted a topic and a single comment, unsupported by any evidence, before any member had an opportunity to respond! These two top tier grades are not applicable to my series, French 20-franc gold roosters, but I would hesitate to make a broad generalization such as you've made in declaring them to be "a dime a dozen now" in any series now or in the recent past. Statistically, they may be scarce, but I do not know that anyone could declare them to be common, with confidence. I own not a one and that suits me just fine. (I do not own any low-ball Roosters either but realistically speaking, with gold melt hovering at about $321, I don't know that it would make any sense authenticating and certifying any in less than Mint State grade, and yet some members have done just that.) I would urge you not to allow anyone to dissuade you from collecting what your heart desires. We are all friends here. Not everything is about the money as you yourself have shown. The thing about the various Forums is there are no big "I's" and little "you's." It's a team effort where even if you choose to lurk about silently, you can learn something. There is a great deal to be said for the humble collector with a predilection or proclivity for unusual phenomena not ordinarily appreciated by others. I would encourage you to be yourself.

Surely advances must have since been made in the science of metalurgy.. When did die-rusting effectively become a thing of the past?

Briefly, the facts: "The [Spanish galleon] Nuestra Senora de Atocha set sail from Havana for Spain on Sept. 4, 1622 [some 400 years ago] with a payload that included 180,000 coins, 24 tons of ingots struck from Bolivian silver, 125 gold bullion bars and 70 pounds of rough-cut emeralds mined in present-day Colombia. It had been sailing for only one day when it and another vessel.... were struck by a hurricane and sank west of Key West." Mel Fisher began a search for the Atocha in 1969 and located the wreck in 1985. (He died in 1998.) He and chicken magnate, Frank Purdue, became good friends and $400 million worth of the treasure was ultimately recovered. Mr. Purdue was given a share of the treasure proportional to his investment which included gold, silver, gold nuggets, jewelry and emeralds. He kept only a gold doubloon and an emerald donating the rest of his bounty to the Smithsonian Institution and Delaware Technical Community College where it is on exhibit billed as "Treasures of the Sea." He met his third wife, Mitzie, and married her in 1988 presenting her with a ring set with one of the finer emeralds recovered from the sunken ship. Earlier this year, Mitzie, now 81, traveled to Ukraine and, prompted by her visit there after the Russian invasion, presented the ring to Sotheby's to be auctioned off this Wednesday, Dec. 7th with the entire proceeds to be donated to support humanitarian efforts in the war-torn country. The ring is expected to fetch anywhere from $50K to $70K. [Source: "Owner Parts With Rare Emerald From 1622 Shipwreck to Help Ukraine," by April Rubin. New York Times (on-line edition) Dec. 3, 2022.]

To those who believe I am incapable of expressing my thoughts succinctly, I present a translation of the Director's letter above to the Superintendent of Philly's mint: "Request Denied."

[If knowledge were gaughed at having a good idea of exactly what it is a man does not know, I would be qualified as brilliant. Sorry if that sounded a bit Donald Rumsfeld-ish, but the entire Rooster run is shrouded in impenetrable secrecy. I suspect I'd have to put my nose to the grindstone to get at the answers but with my luck they'd all be recorded in moldering logbooks quietly disintegrating in a vast non-climate-controlled repository---- written in French!]

[If knowledge were gaughed at having a good idea of exactly what it is a man does not know, I would be qualified as brilliant. Sorry if that sounded a bit Donald Rumsfeld-ish, but the entire Rooster run is shrouded in impenetrable secrecy. I suspect I'd have to put my nose to the grindstone to get at the answers but with my luck they'd all be recorded in moldering logbooks quietly disintegrating in a vast non-climate-controlled repository---- written in French!]

I believe it safe to assume minting of coins does not stop on the last day of the old year and pick up again, with new dies, on the second day of the new year.