Henri Charriere

Exactemant.

The Gold Standard of Excellence is giving credit where credit is due as a matter of course whether required or not. (I still remove my [hat] when entering elevators and hold doors open for ladies.)

With texting, the proliferation of sound bites and Twitter, it is reassuring to see a number of collectors, mostly senior veterans who are sticklers for propriety, providing photo credits, footnotes, references and cross-references. That is professionalism at its finest.

To be truthful about it, take away the tangential bluster, and the gentleman formerly of the Commonwealth of PA. clearly indicated his direction in the hobby: due South. But having cast aspersions on the Great Sovereign State of New York, without substantiation, dedicated numismatists like me will now never know whether it was "Tappan Zee" Cuomo to whom he was referring, or his son, Andrew. My direction in the hobby is clear: Excelsior, or "ever upward." Those looking for direction may be interested in performing an invaluable public service such as I do on my time-outs: use your intimate knowledge and experience to patrol the internet and report shysters who solicit exorbitantly priced coins [and more particularly those whose primary selling areas lie outside the non-numismatic realm such as jewelry] without certification and a "No Returns Accepted" policy. Example: sellers who offer 1907 gold roosters described incorrectly as ".999 fine," actually .900, "rare," actually the most common date in the series, and "B.U.," which can apply to any one of nearly a dozen incremental gradations. I may not be as active in the hobby as other long-time collectors, but I have always kept my finger on its pulse.

[This is an extraordinary thread. I can definitely understand your concerns regarding its preservation a ways back. Discussions elsewhere are sparce. You and your communicative source, RWB, have done very well. At last count, there were roughly 75 set registrants of Roosters, none of whom, to my knowledge, have ever spoken up. Few offer e-mail adresses; none respond.]

I have a question of my own. Clearly this is a very attractive Mint State coin, but is it worth the price of submission to address all your concerns and have it authenticated, certified, formally graded and encapsulated? I would do so based solely on the strength of its pristine clean look, but this is a decision only you can make.

This may explain, in part, why the French 20-franc gold roosters were demonetized in 1928 and why "redistributions" of what we refer to as "re-strikes" dated 1907 were minted in 1921, and the rest of the series, 1908 to 1914, were minted/redistributed/restruck in the 1950's and 1960's.

I don't know about that. The easiest way to determine whether stone masonry ornamentation topped with green fixtures, gutters and leaders, old church steeples, finials -- the Statue of Liberty, cleaned on its centennial, reverted to green -- is copper, is by the tell-tale sign of Green. Maybe bronze bells want to be brown.

FWIW: Re: Penn Station. There have been some notable changes in the immediate vicinity: 1. Although the streets in and around the entire complex, including MSG and the former main Post Office since renamed the Moynihan Train Hall, have been rezoned for commercial development, the adjacent streets resemble a skid row. 2. The most expensive neighborhood is one most people are unfamiliar with: Hudson Yards, which lies directly west and has become the new terminus for the # 7 train with stops at Times Square and Grand Central and the newer China/Koreatown on the Queens end in Flushing. 3. The one-time city's largest hotel, the Pennsylvania, made famous by the Glenn Miller song, Pennsylvania 6-5000, is presently being razed. Welcome to the new Big Apple!

A childhood friend of mine had one of these. He referred to it--I don't know if they still do--as a scrawny eagle. Details? Maybe the poor bloke was unlicensed. Very nice example!

Maybe the collectors who don't care for them is because 1823, as you say, was a common year for profile doubling. 🤔

It is indeed unfortunate that an influential and quite persuasive [and pervasive] instructional tool is being misused and leading collectors astray, but the same could be said for the internet, certain websites, the proliferation of scams, counterfeiters, TikTok, etc. Unfortunately, not everyone is as qualified and as experienced as you are in identifying and rejecting fraudulent presentations used by the "sucker is born every minute"-types using buzzwords and visual imagery to upbeat musical accompaniment.

That's like saying Santa Claus doesn't exist! What the hobby needs is more attention whether it be by mere mention, articles, postings, surveys, scientific polls or elections. There is something in this hobby for everybody. Votes count!

@DSessom: Re: "Faraday Cage"... Never heard of it, but looked it up and can candidly admit the breadth of my ignorance on the subject was breathtaking. I see its application working on smaller items but then the Monster Box arrives at a local ground delivery service... "Well, Rex checked it out. It's negative for drugs. Firearms? Nope. This box is too heavy. Must be a load of osmium. But for what? This guy lives in Butcher Hollow!..." You get the picture. All the aluminum foil in the world cannot mask the fact that a lot of metal weighs, well, like a lot of metal. I believe a 1000-oz. troy bar of silver weighs about 80 lbs., so it stands to reason half that amount [500 ASEs, right?] must tip the scale at 40-plus pounds, or am I overlooking something? I personally go no further than asking for a tracking number but that's a risk no average collector is willing to assume. I just don't want anyone standing around conjecturing: "Well, what have we got here?" I don't know if there is any marking that denotes INSURED, but why suggest "value". I feel terrible about member Hog's loss but keep hoping it was a matter of damage that impeded delivery and that all the pieces of the puzzle will come together in time.

@jtryka: If you'd've said the bust half featured above were made of copper, with an honest-to-goodness suggestion of patina/verdigris, I would not disagree. But odd positioning of letters on the reverse notwithstanding, I am not prepared to go the whole hog and throw "contemporary counterfeit" into the mix. No counterfeiter worthy of the title would lay claim to having produced this. I only regret I wasn't there when this rolled off the press.

My wife's birth year, and my own. Thanks for the memories! Great duo!

What about the commercial possibilities? Not long after the Canadian "Big Maple Leaf" dated 2007 was stolen from a German museum where it was on display [1 Million Dollars face value (then valued at $4.3 million, which the ringleader of four was fined at sentencing] and weighing 221 lbs., a giant gold bar, flanked by two helmeted security guards was put on public display at a jewelry fair in Nanjing, China in Sept. 2011. Weighing 99.999 kgs., its dimensions (converted from the metrics used) were, Length: roughly 1 meter (100 cms. or just inches over a yard) Width: 29 cms., or just under a foot, and Depth: 1.8 cms, or 7/10 of an inch. At the time it was valued at 45M yuan, or $7M. No other information was offered. Instead, readers were informed 345,625,599 stock photos, 360° panomaric images and videos were made available for sale, as follows: 21.99 - personal use, presentations or newsletters; 49.99 - website; 69.99 - magazines and books; 199.99 - marketing package. I wonder what some of the gifted photographers on this Forum would say about that.

Two observations: One, my French 20-franc gold rooster series is riddled with "errors," including, but not limited to, new 1907 coins minted with old 1906 mottos, coins released for circulation after anti-counterfeiting devices were adopted and put into effect, varieties like "closed" nines in the dates of the last two years, and coins minted in 1921 and the 1960's, well after the "official" end of the series in 1914. They are commonly called "restrikes" but the French call them "redistributed" coins. So how does one distinguish one minted in, say, 1907, from the ones minted decades later? You'd sooner find out how many of the 117 million were surreptitiously melted. To the point: how would I, a mere collector, persuade NGC to recognize such things when their country of origin refuses to do so? It is quite possible -- and this is true of world coins, generally -- no one wants to admit a mistake had been made, by whatever numismatic term or name used or known. In fact, it is my privately held belief that the principal reason other countries have acquiesced to using the Sheldon Scale is to accommodate, first and foremost, burgeoning U.S. collector demand. "Rin-tin-tin" older U.S. coin collectors have heard of, but "ren-ten"? Never. Positively enlightening!

Exceptional line-up, gentlemen. To quote a member no longer with us: "Man, I love this place!"

The strongest strike I have ever seen of this type coin.

I suspect any further inquiry would constitute an invasion of the poster's privacy. Having spoken up only seven times in 16-1/2 years, we are left with only what the gentleman wishes to divulge [which another member on another thread maintained no one is obligated to do]. My questions would likely address matters revolving on age, employment, marital status, etc. Why are you selling now? and what do you intend to do now? may, to some, be too personal. There was a brief mention of "seateds" on another post but any inquiry beyond that would, I believe, constitute an invasion of privacy. I believe we have gotten about all we are likely to get, which is fine with me. I wish the member success on his sale(s) and future endeavors.

This may seem like abject exaggeration to coin collecting hobbyists -- experienced investors accept this as gospel truth, in substance -- but there is considerable merit to this line of thought that very rarely, if ever, is expressed on this Forum.

I believe @Sandon has a good grasp of the matter at hand. Another member, @physics-fan3.14 illustrates with breath-taking toning a starred Franklin Pf the A.N.A. excludes from official grading consideration and, of course @RWB as always, is a stickler for consistency and replicative standards no matter how pleasing to the eye they may appear to be. My feeling, having read and re-read pertinent parts of the article is it appears a certain type of toning on gold is awesome when it occurs because it does so with such infrequency. I am a straight grade guy myself but if an MS-70* shows up announced, I will adopt Fraulein, no questions asked.

Cryin' shame Q.A. missed this fine specimen!

My sole source of information for this topic, which I did not expect to generate as much interest as it already has, was "Understanding and Recognizing a Star," which was posted by NGC on 5/1/2002 with the advisory, stay tuned for updates. Members have reported seeing circulated and World coins bearing the star ( * ) designation. The list published was set forth in 13 bullet points. Here's my take: (No Cents are eligible: Lincoln Heads, Indians, Large, Half Cents, etc.) (No pre-Jefferson Nickels: Buffalo Heads, Liberty Heads, Shields, etc.) (No pre-Roosevelt dimes: Mercury Heads, Barbers, etc.) (No pre-Washington quarters: Liberty Standing, Barbers, etc.) (No pre-Franklin Halves.) Proof Franklins are eligible in addition to MS examples. The one displayed in this post is a splendid example. Only Morgan, Peace, Eisenhower and Sacagaweas: (no SBA's) Only U.S. proof coins from 1936 to 1978 are eligible! Only Silver Commemoratives from 1892 to 1954 are eligible. No gold coins, U.S. or World, are eligible. *** Obviously, if exceptions have since been made, series expanded and new categories added, NGC may wish to consider revising this indispensable resource.