RWB

"Genuine" means exactly that; the coin is authentic. If it's in a slab marked "genuine" then it means the company feels there is a problem such as excess damage, cleaning, or other post manufacture defect. Also note the bulk submission comment from Coinbuf.

"Circulated" means the coin is genuine and has been in use; it has visible wear.

The authentication and grading companies for not put counterfeit (or false) coins in holders.

On 5/8/2024 at 8:03 PM, powermad5000 said:

As a fan of this series, I wouldn't mind a comprehensive book regarding the varieties throughout.

I do note more often than not, that a person will refuse to share information if they think the person they are going to share it with will profit off of the reveal of the information, instead of the holder of such information making their own profit off of said, or at least getting a cut of the profit. Money makes the world go round.

The plan proposed to the primary group of Trade dollar variety experts was to consolidate everyone's work into two publications:

#1 a Printed book with background information and approx the 100-150 most readily identified varieties (photos, details, etc.). This would consolidate and correct John Willem's background material and add die varieties.

#2 an Internet database similar to the VAMworld grid for Morgan and Peace dollars. This would list everything, but exclude the mess of die states, sub-varieties and other stiff that clogs the VAM material. The core experts would maintain this and agree to additions and removals. It might also include pricing.

 

Kind of nice to have just the file names so we can scroll through and select just the subjects of interest.

Geeez....do you mean that now we can't even trust our spam ?

On 5/8/2024 at 5:20 PM, VKurtB said:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaa-men!!!!

Well, I remain optimistic - guardedly. (...or should that be naively?)

 

A correspondent asked about the long-rumored Trade dollar die variety book status. As far as I've been told, nothing has happened. The publication project I'd tried to assemble did not work because no one had a complete list, and several expert collectors refused to cooperate with one another.

The OP did not respond this thread and his last post was July 23, 2023.

The item illustrated is a counterfeit and not marked "COPY" as required by law.

On 5/7/2024 at 12:39 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Feel free to let me know what kind of information or slides you'd want to see in a presentation of Saint-Gaudens DEs in particular...or more generally....gold coins.  

I'm trying to cover all the angles but want to know if something of interest stands out to some of you who may have attended presentations in the past, both good and bad, and thus know what you want (or don't want ).

Excellent approach - learn from the past to make the future better.

The mintmark is merely damaged. The coin is not uncirculated and of no special value to collectors -- unless it is an unusual die variety. (See VAMworld.com for info) The value is solely as silver, or about $21 at present.

Sorry to be obtuse. There was a thread on these boards about Indian jewelers making and selling counterfeit sovereigns as a way of selling gold to customers. It included a clear statement from one of the jewelers that the OP contacted. That was triggered by the BBC article's statement about "making coins."

On 5/6/2024 at 9:56 PM, tj96 said:

So his position at NGC is still vacant?

The title of "Research Director" might or might not have been filled --- I have not paid attention. Sorry.

There are very few who are remotely close to taking David Lange's place -- at NGC or anywhere else. You can probably count them on the thumbs of one hand - or less. (Esp. at the crappy salary he was given.)

You're correct. I should have omitted the $ value - the price of gold fluctuated.

Obverse and reverse of the coin were struck at the same time, so must rotate and receive the press blow simultaneously. However, if the coin were normal and someone used a fake obverse die to produce multiple images, the reverse might appear almost normal.

To me, the entire "Georgia quarter" is an error.... Who want's a plumber's crack with a state flag sticking out of it on a coin ?

On 5/6/2024 at 3:14 PM, Ronracer said:

It is believed

You have to be able to state "It is proven...." to even begin speculation. Coin edges get mutilated in lots of ways, especially in rotary machinery, so there's no value except if conclusively related to the band member -- a very unlikely scenario.

This is an interesting article about Indian gold refiners and the fake coins made from the gold by jewelers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68596195

There were many similar reports in the early 1930s. France and Belgium were the primary countries mentioned. Occasionally, the articles will state the actual amount in Eagles or Double Eagles, but most of the time their comments are indefinite -- like the article above. European banks sold gold coins at a premium to local bourse and Central bank quotes. These coins went into small family hoards and vanished from any means of tracking them. (When off the gold exchange standard, central banks sold gold only in 400 oz bar units - about $5,000.)

On 5/5/2024 at 3:27 PM, zadok said:

On 5/4/2024 at 8:06 PM, VKurtB said:

Tribute pieces, tourist pieces, replicas. See often, our Newbie discussion section. One example is the so-called “California Fractional” pieces that have a bear on them. Since there never was a true fractional with a bear on it, how can these pieces be considered counterfeits? No, they are inauthentic.

...thats a decent observation if it never existed it cant be counterfeited....

The authentic so-called "California Fractional" pieces are original fantasy pieces made by a jewelry company. In themselves, as noted above, they are not counterfeits. Fractional pieces of similar form made in the 1840s-50s originated in California, but were never manufactured to even the low standards of most private issues. This encourages the opinion that they were made for profit, for jewelry, and possibly to cheat the illiterate.

However, once an item such as either of the above, is accepted by collectors and resellers, Unmarked copies could be treated as true "counterfeits" because their intent is to defraud rather than ornament. Therein is the context.

Hobby Protection Act

Law: 5 U.S.C. §§ 2101-2106

Links: http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml

 

This Act, amended by the Collectible Coin Protection Act, Pub. L. No. 113-288, 128 Stat. 3281, prohibits manufacturing or importing imitation political items, and manufacturing, importing, or selling imitation numismatic items, unless they are marked in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Federal Trade Commission.

Members here are not only helpful, but intensely curious about how these situations get resolved --- I.e., what authentic coins are in the group? What's their condition? Anything really rare or unusual (US of foreign)....etc. Members are, after all, collectors interested in the coins people inherit or find.

The accepted/most common antonym of "authentic" is "false." (The OP might intend "unauthentic" when writing "inauthentic.")

A good synonym is "genuine."

"False" and "counterfeit" have different meanings which depend on context.

The entire "1964 SMS" story is bologna. No such pieces were ever made, and all certifications as such are false.

On 5/4/2024 at 12:57 PM, Islandboy808 said:

They said it was from the Midnight minters in the 1800's. I looked online and did not see any coins similar to this.

If you read the 1804 story they made unofficial re-strike coins with different weights and diameters.

The thing is a modern counterfeit and of no value.

Whoever "they" is, is a numismatic fool and liar.

See the post "Is this a quarter error?" for the same kind of damage on a different denomination.