zadok

🐓:  Quite a lackluster response, if I may say so myself.
Q.A.: The truth is human beings tend to repress bad experiences. Uncle z mentioned legal guardians.  I wouldn't go fhat far. Your average member would suggest inadvisable or perhaps irrational, but come what may, my 2.3 followers can count on me coming clean. I expect my ill-advised but not illegal scheme to work and will post my dated postal receipt indicating a cash only purchase as well as a good shot of the pattern (the reverse is blank) right here for all to see. You'll see.  Right now, I am awaiting a reply to my order via e-mail.  If the artifact was sold, no problem: First come, first served.  If so, I am hoping they will issue me a credit. Who knows, maybe a top pop might make its debut. Would I advise anyone on the Forum to do likewise?  ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

By law, I am required to give these representatives of the coin collecting community their props, as it were, but I cannot help but feel their authoritarive pitch is aimed almost exclusively at people who know nothing about the hobby beginning with some fundamentals like Sheldonization which lends itself perfectly to manufactured scarcity, fair market values, long-term trends and precisely what some of the extortionate prices demanded -- conveniently camouflaged  by more palatable installment payments -- are really worth when viewers, acting under time constraints are urged to get aboard now or lose out big-time on what appears to be a lifetime opportunity that may never come along again.
Old hands view these with knowing amusement.  Those who will get fleeced are likely the unacquainted or well-meaning retirees with grandchildren -- and sufficient largely uncommitted disposable income.  Caveat emptor!
(Posted at the discretion of NGC Moderation.)
 

At the time I was noticing a lot of modern world coins in PCGS plastic in high grades, Irish coins between 1928-65, Rhodesia, Guatemala, Italy, Isle of Man, and Ukraine to name a few. Most were key dates, varieties, and errors in higher grades than is normally seen but I didn't take the time to assess if I thought many were over graded since I wasn't going to be a player at those estimates and prices realized. 
I agree that it is doubtful that many world coins are resubmitted or even crossed over but a one point increment would net the submitter a positive gain for most if not all of the coins I was looking at. My thought was more along the lines that, possibly or if, PCGS was trying to take market share in world coins would they be slightly looser with their grades, or net grading instead of details, etc., then coins realize higher prices and more submissions coming in because of that, not resubmissions or crossovers. 
Some of the coins are very common and there is plenty of raw material in high grades to be found, so it is possible that individuals cherrypicked a lot of nice coins and sent them into PCGS. The influx of world coins in PCGS plastic seems to have slowed a bit since my last post, it's very possible that TPG turnaround times played a factor in what I was seeing as well. 

Here are some things you wrote on another forum in 2008 and 2010. I'm not sure what prompted the change in attitude, but by June 2010 it started to get ugly.
PS:
The reason I still have this is due to the complaint you filed against me with the ANA. At the time, I had to document all aspects of the situation (I still have that documentation on an older computer drive). The ANA dismissed the complaint without holding a final hearing.

The design was approved by the club membership, sir, with instructions beforehand to reprise a past successful club medal design. The club has a long history of producing medals with an actual U.S. coin design surrounded by a ring of text.

And the ANA Board of Governors disagrees with your charge of Carr making counterfeits. So there’s that.

The Madison County Coin Club has done a lot in promoting numismatics in their area. What have you done for numismatics ?
I think they deserve a pass here, especially since they are a non-profit education-oriented organization.
 

You can absolutely TRUST ME on this: At the Madison County Coin Club of Huntsville, Alabama, the opinions of Roger W. Burdette, aka  @RWB, counts for LESS THAN ZERO. He is not well thought of there. Just get the founder of the club talking about Roger, as I did at the Colorado Springs ANA show in March, and just wait for the vitriol to boil forth. 

The collection of Lars Emil Bruun will be hitting the auction block soon, 100+ years after his death. Current estimates place the value of the 20,000 piece collection at 72MM, and @GoldFinger1969 thinks all the good material is already in slabs. 
Wonder if any, or how many, of the pieces will be going into TPG slabs?
Link to article HERE. 
EDIT:
Here's a link to the Stack's Bowers article. https://stacksbowers.com/sbpressreleases/stacks-bowers-galleries-selected-to-auction-the-l-e-bruun-collection/
Wow, that cabinet looks impressive. Wonder if they'll be auctioning that off as well? 

...the "allure" n "history" of the coins r certainly a part of the broader picture n make the hobby "warm" n "fuzzy" if thats ur driving motivation...but i dont think thats the mainstream motivation, otherwise u wouldnt see coin book authors running around begging for backers to publish their books...most collectors just want the coins n dont really care where they came from or how they got made or which mule carried which bag or ore down the mountain...or how many pounds of pressure it took to mash out each coin...regard the WF "hoard", the coins existed n needed to be sold to provide a profit so a story n a "nickname" had to be created to move the coins into the collectors hands n pocketbooks, after all there were more coins than collectors n trying to say "we got this bunch of so-so coins we found in a warehouse, how many do u want to buy" approach wasnt going to do the trick...ur reference to the SSCA coins is another prime example, first u create a market where one doesnt exist n then u try to find enuf buyers that r attracted to the "allure" n "history" n want a coin that really doesnt fit into their collection in the first place...but, it is only a hobby n there r really no rules n every collector has the privilege of setting their own boundaries n goals...its their money anyway...books r okay, perhaps u could just collect coin books, no bullion markups....

...the "allure" n "history" of the coins r certainly a part of the broader picture n make the hobby "warm" n "fuzzy" if thats ur driving motivation...but i dont think thats the mainstream motivation, otherwise u wouldnt see coin book authors running around begging for backers to publish their books...most collectors just want the coins n dont really care where they came from or how they got made or which mule carried which bag or ore down the mountain...or how many pounds of pressure it took to mash out each coin...regard the WF "hoard", the coins existed n needed to be sold to provide a profit so a story n a "nickname" had to be created to move the coins into the collectors hands n pocketbooks, after all there were more coins than collectors n trying to say "we got this bunch of so-so coins we found in a warehouse, how many do u want to buy" approach wasnt going to do the trick...ur reference to the SSCA coins is another prime example, first u create a market where one doesnt exist n then u try to find enuf buyers that r attracted to the "allure" n "history" n want a coin that really doesnt fit into their collection in the first place...but, it is only a hobby n there r really no rules n every collector has the privilege of setting their own boundaries n goals...its their money anyway...books r okay, perhaps u could just collect coin books, no bullion markups....

A few years ago, a gentleman from a foreign land won a MAJOR lottery here and was told he had to mail his winning ticket to the state capital which he did, placing it in an envelophe with the appropriate address and postage... but not mailing it certified, RRR, registered or insured.  The fact that he had won was not newsworthy, but his cavalier attitude and absolute trust and faith in the mails was front-page news. Everyone I know thought it to be hilarious. "Who does that"?
Today, I emulated his move and raised the stakes. After getting a notification from HA that items which matched my 🐓  want list were coming up for auction, I felt exactly the way any collector of top pops would feel if he eagerly sped thru 15 items only to find they were akin to "parking lot" finds. Apparently, someone who became disenchanted with his Set Registry had dismantled it and was in the process of selling it.  [Tellingly, none were the harder-to-find "Originals."] I had listed my interests with specificity and I felt as though someone with a long memory smacked his head, and declared: "Send those pix to that Rooster guy up in New York." Then I re-read the topic regarding hitting the "upgrade wall". Nothing new, not in weeks or months -- but years.
In another thread, uncle z made a perspicacious comment bespeaking great familiarity if not experience.  In an off-beat comment, I confided I had gotten so disgusted with my forced inertia, I entertained the thought of starting a "kid brother" 10 francs gold rooster set.  In so many words, z suggested it would not be easy.
Today, I did something impulsively:  I sent money thru the mail.  Some of you would say, "So what? That's an every day thing." Allow me to elaborate. I took a greeting card, addressed it to a specific person I never saw, spoke to, or wrote to, placed twenty crisp benjamins in it, sealed it as one normal would, and handed it to a postal clerk.  She threw it on a scale and listed my options on a reader. I told her No, no hazardous materials, etc. I rejected all the other options (which were prohibitively expensive and might have attracted unwanted attention, "Who registers or insures a greeting card?" and paid her $2.80 (for a letter/greeting card being flown Air Mail) that weighed all of 1.40 oz., and left.  To avoid a stampede to the www, I will volunteer only the coin I "ordered" was struck as a pattern on a hexagonal planchet. It is, by the description furnished, unlisted and unpublished.... UNIQUE.
I do not know if it will reach its destination.  I marked it: PERSONAL & CONFIDENTIAL and followed it up with an email informing the recipient only that I have ordered it and, on principle, refused to use eBay, its notorious counterpart, PayPal, credit card or a bank wire transfer.  The number of things that can go wrong is legion. Indeterminate. Right?  I threw all caution to the wind. (If I'd've told my wife, I wonder what she'd've said)
My question to you. gentle reader, is:  WOULD YOU DO THE SAME?  If not, WHAT'S YOUR LIMIT?   Bear in mind, all of us use the mails to buy and sell coins, currency, bars and collectibles WITH SOME MEASURE OF PROTECTION.  This is an experiment in progress. I will not know the outcome even if receipt of my order is confirmed.  I know you could. My question is would you, and if you have, what was the outcome?  (It is perfectly understandable if you have sworn to the zadokian oath of silence.) I will include one exception: a major TPGS (as indicated in another unrelated thread, makes cash remittance its first option, checking the box off as directed.  Forget the money involved. Would you exercise that option?  I did, but it was a sizeable fraction of the $2,000 involved here. I am going to assume the outcome here will be ideal.
But if you have an interesting tale to share, feel free to do so here. Withhold sensitive details as you wish.  Good nite all!

I think its really poor etiquette to hawk junk in a forum dedicated to real coin collecting. I'm glad the club exists but the attempt to "hype" junk is not well received. This should have been posted in Coins for Sale where nobody would care or see it.

I agree, it's not cool to trash an active auction and it's been that way from the start of coin forums. Good people get hurt and it opens the door for other types of harassment. It's auction interference. 
Lets say you have an item listed at auction. It would not be fair to trash someone trying to sell the same item. 
Try going to a live auction in person. Stand up and tell everyone to not bid on an item. How long would it take for the auction company to boot you out the door? 
Go to a coin show and stick your nose in the middle of a dealer trying to sell a coin to a customer. That dealer is going to tell you to leave or have security make you leave.  
The OP came here to promote his coin club and the hobby. That's pretty cool in my book.

It is really poor etiquette to post low-ball comments about a pending auction, especially when the auction is for the benefit of a coin club.
 

Gee I can't wait....the tokens should go for hundreds of cents.

...the "allure" n "history" of the coins r certainly a part of the broader picture n make the hobby "warm" n "fuzzy" if thats ur driving motivation...but i dont think thats the mainstream motivation, otherwise u wouldnt see coin book authors running around begging for backers to publish their books...most collectors just want the coins n dont really care where they came from or how they got made or which mule carried which bag or ore down the mountain...or how many pounds of pressure it took to mash out each coin...regard the WF "hoard", the coins existed n needed to be sold to provide a profit so a story n a "nickname" had to be created to move the coins into the collectors hands n pocketbooks, after all there were more coins than collectors n trying to say "we got this bunch of so-so coins we found in a warehouse, how many do u want to buy" approach wasnt going to do the trick...ur reference to the SSCA coins is another prime example, first u create a market where one doesnt exist n then u try to find enuf buyers that r attracted to the "allure" n "history" n want a coin that really doesnt fit into their collection in the first place...but, it is only a hobby n there r really no rules n every collector has the privilege of setting their own boundaries n goals...its their money anyway...books r okay, perhaps u could just collect coin books, no bullion markups....

Saints really are NOT a mainstream collector’s series. You are kinda unicorn-y.

I see more people talking about/mentioning Trade Dollars here and ATS than talking about Saints. 

Just saw your post.
What coins do you refer to?
I doubt many world coins are resubmitted because the price difference between one or half point increments isn't economical most of the time.
One possibility is inconsistency.  That's what I see in my primary interest.  Sometimes there is also "net" grading instead of "details" grading the coin.
Another possibility is that the coins are actually more common than you thought, especially if from Europe.  Somewhat arbitrarily, I'd describe the vast majority of post 1815 European coinage as common, with the most likely reason it isn't the mintage which I haven't seen for most of it.  Numerous coins back to the mid-18th century even in high quality aren't particularly scarce either, except maybe compared to most US coinage.  The TPG data isn't a reflection of the actual scarcity.

...the gift that keeps on giving, if it keeps being sold it mite become a 4 figure coin yet....

I would have suggested there do appear to be anomalies, but your cultivated tongue sounds so much better than my default gutter lingo.  

...those "rules, codes" u reference only apply to the organizations that issue them n then only to their members, PNG members ascribe to certain ethical premises but only for their members...there is n never will be a mandatory requirement for all or every coin "dealer" to join any certified coin organization...would u really want such n organization in the first place?...as u mentioned "word spreads" so rule of thumb stay informed, better yet learn how to grade coins n if possible buy in person....

Henri, seriously. I have spent YEARS among serious collectors. Not here in Alabama; in Lancaster, PA. Until they got to know you well, and knew what your intentions were, they were all UNBELIEVABLY secretive about their collections and their knowledge. One member, the late great John Eshbach, had accomplished an unbelievable collection. He had assembled a COMPLETE SET of 4 dollar gold Stellas during his lifetime and had sold it, at magnificent profit. I never knew until after he had died. He was the mentor who taught me how to exhibit and how to judge exhibits. 

...its simple...folks just dont need to know everything there is to know bout the availability or sources of coins...numismatics is not a community help program....