ProfHaroldHill

With the exception of the three Jefferson nickels, the Cameo proof dimes, and the US Army Intelligence and Security Command shoulder patches, all of the coins and tokens are from bulk buys from shops over the past 25 years. The Wheat Cents cost me from 8 to 15 cents each, the Buffalo Nickels were pulled from "full date" batches, averaging about 30 cents each. The best finds were sold, some slabbed first. The tokens all came in buys of mixed bulk, mostly junk arcade, etc, tokens, but always there was treasure mixed in. $5 a pound. Most of the stuff I shipped off in bulk to the big bulk buyers, but the early tokens I always kept. Like the coins, the most valuable finds were sold. The Wheats, all 1909 to 1933, include some nice dates from the teens in choice EF, some UNC's from the 20's, and a few that would have been slabbed but have minor issues, or just weren't worth the cost of doing so. That's a 1929-S Buffalo, BTW. Problem free and lustrous. I'll get a few close-ups tomorrow. You'll definitely want to send that PM with an address to claim one of the 19 consolation prizes. They didn't cost me much, but they make great prizes and they let me fulfill my grandsons' wish that, "everyone should win!" 👍

I'll post a few pics a bit later this evening, of the consolation prizes to be given out. Interesting story behind all that stuff. Important: Everyone who entered above, but didn't win one of the top prizes, can Private message me with the address you want your prize shipped to! The top four prizes should ship by Thursday of this week, by Priority Mail, ...while the 19 consolation prizes will go out early next week, since it'll take some time to get them ready and packaged. They'll be going by First class mail. Thanks again to everyone for taking part, and for the kind words offered by many!

And the final winner of the big four prizes is @JT2! Congratulations to JT2!

Erwindoc has opted for the Morgan Dollar lot, so the Fourth place winner will receive the two classic books on Large Cents along with the auction catalog!

Congratulations to @erwindoc! Third place winner!

Abuelo's choice of the PF 67 Kennedy Half and Cameo book leaves the Large Cent literature and the Morgan Dollar lot as available prizes!! Before I PM the Third place winner, this is a good time to mention that my grandsons Both seem to be of the opinion that the only way to make this TRULY a great and Christmas-y sort of contest would be to have everyone win something! (Maybe they're trying to bankrupt me?) 😉 So! All 23 entrants WILL get a prize! The four big winners will be getting the prizes shown, which leaves 19 more prizes to be given away. The additional prizes aren't of the same caliber/value as the big four, but they're not too shabby either, so to speak. (Details and pics posted later.) Once the top four prizes are awarded, everyone else who entered the contest by posting above, but then didn't win one of the top four prizes, can PM me the address they'd like their prize sent to!

Congratulations to @Abuelo's Collection! Second place winner!

Congratulations to @bsshog40! First place winner! Stay tuned for more updates, (and take note that there are a few consolation prizes that will be going out as well! Details will be posted once the top four prizes are won and spoken for.)

Just a few hours left to get those entries in! Keep in mind that this 'winner's choice' method means that I can't contact the second place winner until after the first place winner gets back to me with their choice of prize. I'll post the first place winner here and contact them by PM, by sometime tomorrow evening, then move forward as quickly as possible, based on each winner getting notice and replying to my PM with their choice of prize. This is a random drawing, just like the one for the Full Horn 38-D Buffalo Nickel, back in 2020. To all those who wished a Merry Christmas, thank you! I hope yours was as wonderful as was mine here. 'You're welcome!' to all who said Thanks!, and to all an awesome New Year! (Special thanks to my grandson Finnegan, for his help in these giveaway threads!)

Prize four: Large Cent lover's delight! 1990 Edition of the 1958 "Penny Whimsy", in used condition, by Dr William Sheldon. 1986 Edition of the 1956 "United States Copper Cents", in almost new condition, by Howard Newcomb. 1998 original copy of the Wes Rasmussen Collection Sale catalog, (with Prices Realized list!) This gorgeous color catalog represents one of the most comprehensive sales of attributed large cents ever! Hundreds of pictures, dozens of full color plates! Featuring not only the Rasmussen Collection Sale, but also the sale of the Dr Gerald I Maas collection of half and large cents!

Prize three: Brilliant Uncirculated 1881-S Morgan Silver Dollar, and a field used copy of the small size, spiral bound, "Top 100 Morgan Dollar Varieties: The VAM Keys"... AND! An Original security tag/label from a canvas bag of 1000 US Standard Silver Dollars! It's stamped JUL 23 1914, so it was either a bag of Morgan Dollars or a bag of Seated Dollars.

Prize two: NGC Proof 67 Cameo 1963 Franklin Half Dollar and an Original, March 1948 "Numismatist" magazine. This issue has the front page story of the new half dollar's design bearing an obverse image of Ben Franklin! A great item for the serious Franklin Half collector.

Just reply to this thread to be entered to win. (More pix of the four prizes will be posted below.) Starts at noon PST, Christmas day, 12-25-20 / Last entry accepted midnight(ish) January 1, 2021 (So if you party on New Year's Eve, you've got all day on the First to wake up and enter this way cool contest!) Random drawing from all posts, (you can post here more than once, but each person posting gets one entry ) on January 2nd, 2021. NOTE: First place winner gets to choose one prize from among all four prizes. Second place winner gets to choose one prize from the remaining three prizes. Third place winner gets to choose between the two remaining prizes, and the Fourth place winner gets the last remaining prize! (USA addresses only, UNLESS you're willing to pay the difference in shipping from my normal USA destination shipping cost, and the actual cost to ship it to you.) Prize one: (Other prizes will be shown in posts below.) NGC Proof 67 Cameo 1964 Kennedy Half Dollar and a slightly used copy of the 1991 book, "Cameo and Brilliant Proof Coinage of the 1950 to 1970 Era"

Yes. Actually I had quit posting on the PCGS boards after the mods shut down a light hearted thread about the perils of having a glass of wine or beer before bidding on or outright buying coins online. There was not one word of ridicule, nothing was said in anger, it was just a fun thread. (And I'm not a drinker.) They also discriminate openly, shutting down posts and sometimes the posters, of content that makes fun of groups they feel are deserving of special status, but at the same time allowing derision and mockery of "hillbillies" and, "white people". One side of my family were sharecroppers in North Carolina hill country. They knew that word, hillbilly, and others. All were designed to remove them from the rest of humanity. Second rate people. It was the hypocrisy of the mods enforcing their own beliefs in a holier than thou manner, coupled with their allowing groups they apparently disfavor to be ridiculed and disparaged, that had me looking for the exit. I headed over here. I didn't decide to stop doing business with them until they reacted to my posts indicating my hopes for the company if it was taken into private hands, by disappearing all my posts. I linked to the thread about the counterfeit Sacagawea Lincoln overstrikes and admonished the administration! Turns out they have a special form of punishment for those they really, really hate. Not a suspension, not even the usual ban, where everything you ever posted is still up but you can't use the boards and your avatar is replaced with a notice that you were banned. But for those who dare challenge their supremacy, they remove the person's entire history. None of what was contributed remains, no jovial notes to friends, no pics, none of the help given others, etc. Clearly it's an act of vengeance. Any company who moderates like that, and who is willing to slab coins like those overstrikes, then tries to silence those who 'call them out' on it, is not a company that I will continue to do business with.

Even if they're not seized, they were knowingly misrepresented as error coins by PCGS (Their error expert publicly stated that they were made intentionally, not by mistake.) That's a serious "material misrepresentation". I imagine the buyers of these items would be quite upset to learn the truth about them. On the trafficking question... I don't know who brought them to market, or who discovered any of them. There's much about these things that remains a mystery.

We have no way of knowing how many were released and how many are still out there, unslabbed. Undiscovered examples are quite possibly out there, hiding in BU rolls. It's not possible to know, so it wouldn't make sense to attempt seizure if someone sent a raw example in for authentication. (I never believed the 'accidentally manufactured' story, Btw.)

I've not seen any forum members 'bashed' by anyone in this thread. My question was about people getting refunded.... Has anyone managed to get their money back. Apparently the answer is 'No'. Pardon me, I mean, 'Not yet.' 😎

The Sacagawea mules were supposedly accidentally made, I recall reading. It's certainly possible they were accidental, unlike the Sacagawea-Lincoln overstrikes which cannot be errors. If the court segregated the mules into two groups as you mentioned, then I don't see how they could be kept, if seized. How could anyone tell which ones were smuggled out and which were legally released? As long as that decision stands, all the mules out there are probably going to be ignored by the govt.

Well said Quintus. This place has grown on me too. And for my part of your mention above, thank you! Some say that, today, "business ethics" is but two contradictory terms sitting side by side.

That was the movie!

"No way to quit the collectors club"...! Reminds me of a movie from back in the early 90's where Tom Cruise plays a young lawyer who joins a law firm only to discover his boss is the devil himself. Tom Cruise couldn't exactly 'quit the club' either. I'm wondering if the parallels here, between that move and the club, are purely coincidental. (Or maybe I should be VERY careful how I ask for that refund!) I'll just send their Customer Service dept a nice letter explaining my dilemma. Maybe that will do the trick. Thanks Coinbuf!

... Did you maintain your membership or did you essentially quit the club when you started posting here? This is generally a question for the folks who either can't post any longer at PCGS or choose not to. When I decided to leave the PCGS boards I had only recently renewed my membership and I still have the grading credits, but I don't wish to submit coins to them any longer. If you quit the club, did they refund the fees if you hadn't used the voucher? I'm quitting their Collectors Club because I don't want to do business with them anymore, due to their business ethics conflicting with my own. I'm wondering how they handle such things and if there are many people who were in similar situations in the past, what was their/your experience(?)

@MAULEMALL, I see where we parted paths... I used the wrong phrase to characterize the scenario posited by @Moxie15. Moxie15 had me in the trial, prosecuting the alleged counterfeiter, but I used the phrase, "seeking charges", which of course an individual can do. It was the idea that an individual could compel the trial, and then be there opposing the accused, like in a civil trial, that I was countering, not the ability to ask that charges be filed by way of affidavit/sworn statement.

If you or an associate actually own one of these, certified by a third party grading company as an error, rather than posting your resistance to seizure why not surrender it to the Feds and ask if you can have it back? That way, if they return it to you, you can smile a VERY big smile, because the value of your piece will have skyrocketed to multiples of your purchase price! Lots of people decided to not bid on the one at top of this thread, back when it was sold by Heritage Auctions. Unlike the 2000 Sacagewea 'mules', which could have been accidentally made and released, these suffered at auction from the fact lots of people knew they were a risk to possess. New sales, post Govt approval, would undoubtedly bring very high prices, due to the nature of these items. If, on the other hand, they kept the piece, you can unwind the entire deal wherein you bought it, being made whole again, with full compensation, surely exceeding the purchase price of the counterfeit. And you wouldn't even have to sue. They'd be all over you to end it with a hefty settlement. As I've said before, each one of these that was certified is a unique and serious liability to any TPG that slabbed them as errors. They're not errors and the TPG's would all have known that upon examination and authentication.

These are not errors. They are unauthorized utterances of renditions of US circulating money that were made intentionally. That is legally the description of a counterfeit. Up above I clearly explain why they can not be errors. Fred Weinberg, PCGS expert, has said that these were intentionally made. Yes, the bags are big, and are made of a substance nearly identical to Kevlar, a ballistic nylon used in body armor, as I noted in my post. Each coin does not require individual release, but every single one must match the technical specifications stipulated by the authorization. These do not. As I clearly stated near the top of this thread, ALL genuine error coins that were accidentally released are legal to own and sell. Your coin is an error, so of course it's not a counterfeit. These items are not error coins, they are technically counterfeit coins. If the Feds ever caught up with the person(s) responsible, they would have good cause for counterfeiting charges. Even though they could choose to charge them with the lesser charges you bring up, they will file the most serious charge that has reasonable chance of success.