EAC and Slabs??

[Bruceswar]

So it is widely known that the best surviving EAC pieces were once laquered as a method of preserving them. When you submit an EAC piece into be graded it must not be laquered which would cuase it to dry out? Would this not in turn effect the coins surfaces? Are slabs good for the health of these coins? Any EAC guys care to comment? I have seen alot of EAC not in slabs that looks slabbable. Is there a reason for this? What is your thoughts on all this?

[TomB]

EAC and slabs=Oil and water

[MikeInFL]

Bruce, I'm a recent EAC member, so please take that into account in my answers...

 

So it is widely known that the best surviving EAC pieces were once laquered as a method of preserving them.

 

I do not agree with the premise. Who told you that? While I understand that laquer was used extensively, saying the best surviving EAC pieces were all lacquered comes as a surprise.

 

When you submit an EAC piece into be graded it must not be laquered which would cuase it to dry out? Would this not in turn effect the coins surfaces?

 

EAC, unlike TPGs, will assign a grade regardless of the presence of laquering or other "doctoring" -- and simply deduct points from the sharpness grade to the extent they detract from the coin's appearance.

 

Laquer effectively stopped corrosion -- that's why it was applied. It does effect the surface, and the look of the coin often changes when it is removed, particularly if the laquer sat on the coin for an extended period of time. LeeG, a member of this forum, has a coin which he removed laquer from -- I'll see if I can dig up the post...

 

Are slabs good for the health of these coins?

 

That's actually a deep philosophical question. I think that most EAC guys prefer their coins raw, and prefer to "care" for the coin's surfaces themselves. Personally, I would prefer a stable coin that is "maintenance free", but this is probably because I do not have the prerequisite skill in and experience with proper copper care.

 

I have seen alot of EAC not in slabs that looks slabbable. Is there a reason for this? What is your thoughts on all this?

 

The EAC guys have, for the most part, completely rejected the TPG game in favor of their own grading style, which predates it. They just prefer raw coins, and the first thing many EAC collectors do when they buy a slab is to crack it.

 

Personally, owning both raw and slabbed copper, I prefer to just leave them as I bought them.

 

All IMHO, and I hope this helps...Mike

[Bruceswar]

Mike thanks for that response. I was under the impression that the best kept pieces over time were laquered to preserve the coins surfaces? Is this not true? So would having a coin slabbed cause it to dry out giving it micro porsity?

[TomB]

I believe the lacquer would have been applied because of the extreme reactivity of copper to moisture in the environment and that corrosion would not have been caused by the coin "drying out".

[Hoot]

I've also not heard of lacquering old coppers as being an accepted practice among aficionados, although I know it was (and perhaps is) not uncommon (having seen many lacquered coppers - still the vast minority among them). Many who did this simply must have liked the result of the coin looking "wet" all the time, as if freshly oiled, etc. However, lacquer, particularly natural lacquers like shellac, form unstable esters over time and tend to clump and fracture due to the volatilization of semivolatile chemicals in the mix (ethyl alcohol was commonly used to dilute shellac). Thus, over time lacquers tend to crack and gather moisture, and since they are not strongly hydrophobic (can even be hydrophilic) when "dry," they tend to trap moisture and will eventually lead to the demise of a coin.

 

As for porosity, that can exist on a copper coin for many reasons, but ultimately, can be exascerbated by moisture and acid in the air.

 

Hoot

[MikeInFL]

Mike thanks for that response. I was under the impression that the best kept pieces over time were laquered to preserve the coins surfaces? Is this not true? So would having a coin slabbed cause it to dry out giving it micro porsity?

 

I am not aware of the use of laquer by anyone these days, nor am I aware of a significant number of the "best pieces" being laquered in the past. However, I'm anything but an authority on the subject...

 

My understanding of micro porosity is that it is not caused by "drying out" per se, but rather corrosion that once removed reveals pits typical of micro-porous copper. Many copper enthusiasts talk about "dryed out" copper in relation to the use of oils (like Care or Blue Ribbon) to limit corrosion -- a practice widely used by the EAC community -- but I'm of the opinion a properly stored copper piece in an air-tight enclosure (TPG slab and AirTite being two examples) in a temperature and humidity controlled environment will be stable over long periods of time without the addition of oils or preservatives. In short, I'm not convinced "drying out" (i.e. lack of oil) is such a bad thing as long as the humidity is kept low, the temperature constant, and gas exchange limited.

 

Again, this is my personal opinion based upon my experience storing circulated copper for twenty some years, yet it flys in the face of long-held beliefs and practices of the EAC guys -- and I'm just a noob in comparison -- so please take the above for what it is...my humble opinion, based upon my first-hand experience, and respectfully submitted...Mike

[Bruceswar]

Guys thanks for all the responses. Maybe I should have replaced laquered with protected with some sort of solvant. Thanks for setting me straight. Do you ever think there will be a time when EAC guys fully reject the TPG's and warn people against as being bad for copper?

[James_OldeTowne]

"Lacquring" is indeed not common practice, not now or way back when, though it was less uncommon way back when. However, it is absolutely true that slabs are not an ideal environment for copper. They can and do in fact trap contaminants with the coin. Copper coins should be brushed from time to time to in order to ensure the most pristine possible surface quality.

 

That being said, I personally do not own a brush, as I do not feel comfortable knowing how to do this properly, but I have had other EAC members kindly perform the task for me. Someday, when I feel comfortable with the skill, I'll do it.

 

I will never forget when my friend, Arvid Johnson (whom Michael once asked about in an old thread) taught me that it is perfectly OK to place a 250 year old copper in the palm of your hand. As he explained it, the natural oils from your skin provide natural protection for the coin in the form of patination. While this ought not to be done with red copper, of course, the extraordinary experience of holding a 250 year old coin in your hand, free of encumbrance is at the very heart of the numismatic experience.