Are 1876-P Twenty Cent Pieces undervalued?

[Prethen]

[From Rhedden, ATS - he allowed me to repost his thread here]

 

Historically, the 1876-P twenty cent piece has been valued higher than the 1875-CC, which makes sense from a rarity standpoint, as the 1876-P is indeed a little bit scarcer (though perhaps not as scarce as its 15,900 mintage would suggest). The price of the 1876-P was higher in the 1964 Red book, and it was still higher in all grades in the 2004 Red Book. In the past few years, the 1875-CC has passed it out in price by a large margin (see current PCGS price guide and Heritage auction records), despite coming to auction more frequently. This appreciation has prerhaps been driven by a booming collector-based increase in CC-mint anything in the past 5 years (just ask anyone looking for the better CC dimes, quarters, and halves of the same era). On the other hand, the collector appeal of P-mint Seated coins may be at an all-time low, and few people collect twenty cent pieces by date. Then again, the 1876-P trades rather infrequently and has a low surviving population- earmarks of a "sleeper" coin that is overdue for a whopping price increase. So is 1876-P twenty center the loser of a race that few people are watching, doomed forever to be worth less than the 1875-CC, or is it just flat out undervalued and a bargain at today's prices?

 

Note: I have left out the 1875-P and 1875-S twenty cent pieces to keep this analysis simple, but feel free to toss them into the fray as well.

[Prethen]

There were multiple replies on this thread. However, I strongly disagreed with the sentiment that the Philly mint coins (1875 OR 1876) can be considered easily available in any grade. That is BUNK! Here is my reply:

 

I have to laugh when people mention the "impossible" 1876-CC. And, then some people will say, I won't collect that tiny, nothing, little set since I can never complete it (especially in business strike because of the 76CC). Ladies and gentlemen, I have news for you, personally I don't even look at the 76CC as a "collectible" in any normal sense of the word. It's about as "collectible" as a 1913 Liberty Nickel. Yeah, I'll never own either, but I do NOT care! As a business strike set, I'm perfectly happy in saying I've COMPLETED the set for all intents and purposes by having at least nice examples of the four collectible coins. I have at least 2 "complete" sets, and I'm one shy of a third set.

 

Now, the Proofs are a different story. I have a Proof 1876 that's absolutely gorgeous (thanks to Mark Feld!!!). I don't have any plans on getting any of the others. The 1877 and 1878 are a bit out of my reach. Most 20¢ Proofs I see are nothing much to write home about. Many times they're dipped out without a whole lotta life and not the greatest mirrors. However, the Proofs are relatively easy to complete as a set. Hmmm....but if you're a stickler, you could say that you'd have to get the 1875S Proof and now THAT is a showstopper!

 

I have four 1876 20¢ pieces. They are all beautiful, circulated pieces that have not been cleaned or damaged. Those are rare coins in just about every sense of the word. They become available from time to time in various venues. But finding problem-free examples make you appreciate the very, very low mintage figure and likely low surviving rate.

 

So, are they underpriced? Well, obviously not if the market indicates how much they should trade for. Are they underappreciated....DAMN RIGHT!

 

I can find a DOZEN 1875CC 20¢ pieces for every SINGLE Philly Mint I'm lucky enough to find! And that's not saying that any of the coins are ones I'd like to own. More than likely they're not. That is NO joke or over-exaggeration. It's the truth. The CC's are quite available, right behind the S-mint. Yes, the S-mint is quite common and you'll see a dozen of those for every CC coin.

 

Oddly enough, I actually have a more difficult time finding 1875-P than 1876-P 20¢. I'm not sure why that is, but the population reports and pricing seems to bear out that they have similar surviving rates even though one is more than double the mintage of the other.

 

The 20-cent series has just about everything a collector of 19th century U.S. coinage could love: A beautiful version of the seated design, moderate size, odd-type, short series so it's "easy" to collect, and very reasonable prices. What more can a collector ask for?!?!

[BillJones]

Back in the 1960s, when I was in high school, I took a strong interest in 20 cent pieces. Buying any of the Proof only issues was beyond my reach, but I was able put together the four piece set of coins that did make it to circulation.

 

I would agree with you that the 1875 and most especially the 1876 Philadelphia are underrated. The trouble is very few collectors look beyond acquiring anything but a type coin for the double dime, and that means nine times out of ten that coin will be an 1875-S.

 

While I would agree that the 1875-CC is more common than the 1876 double dime, a portion of the 1875-CC issue is unacceptable to some collectors. A fair number of pieces show weakness in strike on the eagle’s right wing and on the corresponding are on the shield on the obverse. Unfortunately that obverse weakness effects the word “LIBERTY.” Therefore while the 1875-CC is more common, a fair number of the survivors are less than ideal candidates for most collectors, which makes the well struck coins more desirable and harder to find.

 

And yes I agree with you. The 1876-CC Twenty cent piece should NOT be viewed as an essential part of the set. It is like the 1913 Liberty Nickel and can therefore be ignored. There are a couple of ugly examples of this coin. One of them repeatedly made the rounds of major auctions in the late 1970s and early 1980s. It was constantly “bought in” and was not really sold. The coin had EF sharpness, but was very dark and unattractive.

 

Putting together a complete set of the Twenty Cent Pieces, including the 1877 and '78 Proof only issues, is very expensive these days. For that reason I don't think that you will see a lot of additional interest in the scarcer coins like the 1876.

[michael]

prethan you sum things up well along with bill jones

 

 

myself i love the 1876 double dime as it is for me a terribly undervalued coin and i think scarcer than the lower mintage 1875 as i think being a first year issue and there were many collectors/speculators in the middle 1870's so this issue was saved by 1876 this was not the case........

 

also with the 1876 sexy centennial date i think it is a sleeping giant ready to awaken and all it will take is just an extremely small demand to make this coin skyrocket in demand......... also i would rather search for a choice dove grey xf coin and spend a few hundred more and get many more times the rarity and desirability and sexy centennial date than buy a scarce but more common 1875-s

 

i these coins and series will have a renissance in the up and coming years when the new collectors entering the market because of all the great current mint products and third party ms/pr 69 70 hype will grow as collectors and move backward and find these great odd demonination truly historical coins and will revel in the search and collectibility of these value opportunity and truly scarce double dimes

 

[construct]

I'm glad to see the responses from Bill and Michael. I agree with them completely. I put together a low-grade, no-problem, four-coin set several years ago. I went out of my way to make sure that the 1876 was the highest grade coin in the set. I considered it the best issue in the set, and I still do.

[Prethen]

Bill, you're dead on about the 75CC and it's lack of availability in a decent strike. All 3 of my examples have a relatively poor strike but they're still have a great look and I'm happy to have them in my collection. I always have my eyes open for that CC with a decent strike that I can afford.

 

One other thing that you alluded to with the 75CC was the validity of the price due to difficulty in finding a decent strike. I don't see any softer prices for this coin if the strike isn't that great. However, the converse may very well be true; the coin may garner a premium ABOVE their current prices for a better strike.

 

That 76CC you mentioned must be the one that sold for only about $60K some years ago. Now, it makes sense. I never saw the coin, but I always thought that was a "cheap" price.

[leeg]

I feel very fortunate to have found this 75-P for my Type Set (Thanks Brandon. ) I also feel these are underappreciated and tough to find unmessed with.