Dealers - What pricing references/guides do you use most often?

[CurrierVentures]

I am just wondering which pricing sheets/lists/guides are used most often in the industry.

[mrearlygold]

Grey, blue, monthly, quarterly, trends, auction prices realized, gut feelings

[MarkFeld]

I primarily use the CDN, CCDN, CCE, auction prices realized and knowledge of specific transactions/prices at shows.

[lkenefic]

I had been using Numismedias' Fair Market Values webpage but the more I collect and the more I look at it in comparison to prices realized at Heritage/TelTrade/etc.. the more I'm thinking it's pie in the sky wishful thinking. I'm collecting Mid/Late Date Large Cents these days and finding problem-free examples in mid-grades (VF-AU) at the price points they have published is...well...impossible.

 

Leo

[Houston Investor]

I prefer CDN where there is an exact match in which case CDN Ask represents replacement cost and retail is Ask x a markup factor (which is based on budgeted target profit / ROI for the business). Otherwise I use various catalogs and excel spreadsheets for analyzing pricing data but cost is also a major component as I believe a coin business should achieve a certain return on investment compared to other investment venues which pay interest and dividends. Other times I may blowout material in auction and start the bid below CDN or around melt.

 

I think the PCGS online price guide and Coin World Trends are excellent pricing tools but if you are going to move the coin your price has to be competetive. You want to move your merchandise but certainly not give it away below replacement unless it is some unique collectible you know you'll never replace and want to take your profit on. The Krause Catalog for World Coins is a good tool but be cognizant of what bullion prices it was based on vs those currently.

 

The greensheet is too low and unrealistic in many areas to use as a basis for proper currency retail pricing in my view. In the currency arena (heck find me a guy at a show who will sell at greensheet and I will buy him lunch), it takes a lot more homework to price your material. Analysis of Dealer price lists and having a good knowledge and feel for the speciality are critical - sometimes its like poker . I used to specialize in NJ National Bank Notes. I had one from Prospect Park, NJ in nice VF (only 9 were known for that one bank town). While I had $300 in it (auction purchase) I had been holding it about 3 yr and was not going to take less than $595 (double bubble). The town I was modeling on my HO scale 1950's CNJ RR pike is named Prospect Park and this name was on its water tower and bank. I take my model rr hobby seriously - track is painted an oxide red and ballasted, buildings are painted a flat color to hide the plastic shine, passenger cars have custom interiors, plastic wheelsets are replaced with metal wheelsets, hornhook couplers are replaced with magnetic knuckle couplers, my layout is detailed with scenery representing the location, and autos reflect the period, etc. Consequently this bank note was not just any collectible. A guy at a show wanted it badly and argued coming back to my table 2 or 3 times citing this price or that, always to acquire for less that what I felt it was worth. I told him "hey go find one then." When it eventually became obvious to him I was not going to let it go for less than what I was asking he finally bought it at my price. Afterall, this was not some 1881-S dollar he could walk over to the next table and buy at bid. Now, with the bull market currency has been the last couple of years, it would take twice what I sold it for or more to replace it if I wanted to.

[BillJones]

I use Coin Prices (the new Coin World "Trends") and the Gray Sheet. I found the Blue Sheet to of marginal value and have dropped back to only getting it only at the first of the month.

[Houston Investor]

I dropped my subscription to the blue sheet a long time ago. I am not even sure you could use it to buy something at Teletrade.

[MikeInFL]

I had been using Numismedias' Fair Market Values webpage but the more I collect and the more I look at it in comparison to prices realized at Heritage/TelTrade/etc.. the more I'm thinking it's pie in the sky wishful thinking. I'm collecting Mid/Late Date Large Cents these days and finding problem-free examples in mid-grades (VF-AU) at the price points they have published is...well...impossible.

 

Leo

 

For your current specialty, I think you will find CQR and Heritage to be the best two sources for pricing of mid/late date large cents. I know I do...Mike

 

p.s. I apologize for the tangent, and I am anything but a dealer.

[lkenefic]

Mike... I realized after I posted that I went off on my non-dealer tangent....ooooopps...L

[BillJones]

I dropped my subscription to the blue sheet a long time ago. I am not even sure you could use it to buy something at Teletrade.

 

The only reason why I bother at all with the Blue Sheet is for the numbers in the PR-66 and 67 columns. The grading for 20th Proof coins has become so lose that you have buy coins in those grades to get anything decent. I can't can't believe how bad some of the PR-65 coins are these days.

[carson city]

Usual Rule of Thumb---Whichever Price Guide is Higher, then add 25% or more !

[Houston Investor]

I use either CW Value Trends or the PCGS Guide for modern coin retail pricing. The blue sheet is useless as a pricing tool for retail and I have met very few people who would actually sell at those prices. I stopped wasting my money on it a long time ago. I had one fellow qoute me bluesheet on a coin he was looking at in my case - "well bluesheet is $120" he says like thats some important revelation. I simply asked him if he had one he would sell me for that. That shut him up. Another time at a big show a New Jersey dealer walks up, looks at one of my coins and asks "whats sheet on that (it was $150)?" I told him "well its wholesale and if you want that coin I need $195" I could care less who they are - once they know their BS wil not fly with me they (condesending dealers) leave me alone.

 

I have a computer printout with cost and retail - so when someone comes up to the table I can quote a price accordingly which may be below the price guide price if there is ample room for me to work. Key consideration is target profit.

[Shortgapbob-migration]

I had been using Numismedias' Fair Market Values webpage but the more I collect and the more I look at it in comparison to prices realized at Heritage/TelTrade/etc.. the more I'm thinking it's pie in the sky wishful thinking. I'm collecting Mid/Late Date Large Cents these days and finding problem-free examples in mid-grades (VF-AU) at the price points they have published is...well...impossible.

 

Leo

 

I agree. It's becoming a difficult task to buy nice quality pieces for even high end retail prices like Coin Values and PCGS.

[MarkFeld]

I agree. It's becoming a difficult task to buy nice quality pieces for even high end retail prices like Coin Values and PCGS.

That depends upon the coins/coin types, a very large number of which trade well below the values listed by those two price guides.

[Shortgapbob-migration]

I agree. It's becoming a difficult task to buy nice quality pieces for even high end retail prices like Coin Values and PCGS.

That depends upon the coins/coin types, a very large number of which trade well below the values listed by those two price guides.

 

That is certainly true. I was referring to large cents specifically. Seems like I can't touch any decent large cents that have nice surfaces lately.

[wayneherndon]

Price guides I use regularly to determine buy price and/or asking price (in the order they occured to me not order of use): greysheet, CW Trends, NumisMedia (retail), Auction Prices Realized (subscription service), CCE dealer bids, FACTS/CoinNet network dealer postings, NN Prices, CU Price Guide; TT archives; other dealer buy lists.

 

Price guides I use less regularly: bluesheet, greensheet, redbook, bluebook, blackbook, Odd-Ball Coin Price Guide, NumisMedia (wholesale), a whole shelf full of Krause price guides.

 

While I have subscribe to/buy virtually every price guide available, the important thing that needs to be understood is that rarely can I just look up a coin in the guide, read the number out of the guide and determine what I'll pay/ask for the coin. If only life were that simple. Instead, that is merely a starting point for determining the price.

 

My thinking usually goes more like this (I'll give a few examples):

 

"I see CU lists it for $xxx. I want to be able to sell it at y% back of CU price guide so I need to buy this coin at $xxx less $."

 

"Hmm, these have been auctioning in the $1000 to $1200 range. This one is available to me at $1100. It is a very nice coin for the grade but after I mark it up, I'll be near the top of the trading range. While it will ultimately sell to an astute collector of the series at this level, it will tie up my capital longer than I'd like. So, either I need to get this coin below the offered price or would be better off passing for something I can sell quicker."

 

"This coin is an AU 53. Greysheet bid is $500 in AU and $1000 in 60. The guy is asking $600. Even after marking it up, I will still be well within the range between AU 50 and MS 60."

 

Unfortunately, price guides are not a magic pill one can swallow and thus reveal the correct buy and sell prices for a coin.

 

Each price guide has its own area of advantage (some examples):

 

Greysheet--there's no better tool for buying and selling commodities (e.g., BU rolls, proof and mint sets, etc.) than using a plus or minus from the greysheet.

 

CU Price Guide--Pretty good for the high end PCGS certified moderns where Registry Fever abounds. The prices tend to be higher than market but not always. The PCGS price guide is slower to adjust than the market. Thus, the user needs to know which way prices are heading in order to make the proper adjustment to the CU guide. Also, depending on the series, a different discount needs to be applied. Franklin Halves, for example, are the most out of whack on CU.

 

CW Trends--decent retail guide for the typical sub $500 collector grade coins.

 

NumisMedia--great for filling in those gaps that the other price guides don't use: VF 25, 30, 35; XF 45; AU 53, 55, 58, MS 61, 62, etc. Or color combinations on copper that you don't see elsewhere (MS 63 RD, MS 66 BN, etc).

 

TT Archives--good source for retail pricing trends for PCGS/NGC 20th century coinage.

 

Dealer buy ads, CCE, CoinNet, FACTS, etc.---critical for those items that you wanna flip quick or fast changing items where prices published yesterday (or even this morning) are out of already out of date.

 

I could go on and on but hopefully this adequately communicates the idea.

 

WH

[carson city]

True, many dealers use the price guides as a starting point. If you are Selling your coin to dealer, it's usually Low end for the grade(or overgraded), if Buying a coin from dealer,(you guessed it) it's high end for the grade. Not cynical, just reality !