Pedigreed Holders and Overgrades

[dragon]

 

 

 

I am of the opinion that PCGS has quite a few overgraded coins in pedigreed holders from high ranking registry sets and/or high profile collectors names. I think that once your set gets pedigreed, PCGS is more lenient on handing out upgrades to those individuals, as many high grade pedigreed coins from well known collectors I've recently seen at some large auctions (primarily Morgans) were completely overgraded IMO. It almost seemed to me as if PCGS was giving out perks to the top ranking sets and/or high profile people. JMO.

 

And on some of these coins I viewed, it also seemd like the more times it was dipped and the more artificially bright the coin looked, the higher the grade, but that's a whole other subject.

 

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

 

dragon

 

 

[IrishMike]

dragon, the two subjects go hand in hand for Morgans. It's no secret that the high end collectors would buy a high grade Morgan at a show, take it back to their hotel room, dip it, then resubmit the coin, get a higher grade and have it pedigreed to their set. It was and probably still is "part of the game".

 

This in one of the reasons I jettisoned my high grade set, many of the potential upgrades were dipped.

 

Let me just say that many of the grades were generous, high end 6's making 7's etc.

[jeffnpcb-migration]

I started collecting Roosevelt proofs over 2 years ago. I first went after the coins between 1950 and 1955 aquiring some nice PR68Cameos from both NGC and PCGS. The POP's from PCGS were low and 68 was a good grade in Cameo. After the explosion with registry sets, all of a sudden 69's and Dcams started popping up and these coins are found in the sets in PCGS Registry. In the top sets is where you will find these miracle coins.

If you follow the POP's over the years before the registry sets they were pretty stable and anything over a 68 was rare. I finished my set with 68 to 69 Cam and Dcam coins as well as two POP TOP's in a DDO and a DDR Roosevelt. Have I registered this set? NO!!! Don't plan on it and will probably start selling it off! My ego isn't that big and I'm not a rich elitist out to prove that for enough money I can get any grade I want and have a top registry set!!

Working on several type sets in Danscos' and slabbed coins crack out just fine!

[michael]

dragon you have hit on something here..............

 

i guess you are verbalizing something many already know well most already know.............. but will not say in print

 

 

dragon if you were playing bingo you would hit the big jackpot tonight!!

 

 

and dragon for me it is not good or bad just the way it is

 

it is the private for profit grading services opinion of what they put on the holder and i see nothing wrong with that

 

BUT*****************************************

 

 

just make sure you * buy * the * coin * not * the * holder*

 

michael

 

[BillJones]

Overgrading of pedigreed coins has long been a problem.

 

I've bought and sold a few coins from the Eliasberg collection that were graded properly. I've seen quite a few others that a grade boost because of the pedigree. Ditto for some of the Pittman coins that I have seen.

 

The worst offender? I saw a large size Bust Quarter from the Eliasberg collection that was in a leading grading service MS-65 holder. From the technical aspect I would have been hard pressed to have called it Mint State. It had a rub.

 

The dealer who was offering it for sale had that coin for a long time, and had a hard time selling it. I guess some others agreed with me.

[TomB]

What dragon is writing about is not limited to Registry sets, rather, any set with a "name" that might help the casual perception of a company gets the benefit of the doubt.

 

Please note that I am not writing this as dogma, however, I am writing it from personal experience. Hence, this is anecdotal, not formal.

[zzpot-migration]

Hlo IrishMike

 

Dipping ? Now if we were playing golf.........I would know what that means........I'm new please explain this alittle more if you have the chance not wanting to do it just....the practice of it don't want to get caught with one of them that maybe someone has done.

 

 

thanks

 

[TomB]

Howdy zzpot, the practice of dipping is widespread in numismatics and most collectors accept it without question. There are others, however, that do not like it.

 

Dipping refers to briefly immersing, dipping, a coin in a mild acid solution. Typically this is a commercially available solution of thiourea. If the dip is done properly, and on a good candidate coin, the coin will have a very thin layer of atoms stripped off of it and will appear blast white. To the naked eye, it will look very much like it was just struck. Dipping a coin repeatedly, improper rinsing, improper dipping or dipping of a coin that has too thick a layer of oxidation on it will result in coins that look "dipped out". These are coins that will have little luster, will look drab and are often greyish or yellowish. They are not attractive.

 

If you want to learn more about dipping and toning please read the articles I have written on my web site. I think they will be of help to you.

[fcloud-migration]

I love the look of a blast white coin, however, coins dipped repeatedly are ruined forever. I would much rather have a coin with a light color, haze, or tone than to have the coin dipped white. I have switched my opinion over the last year, a white coin is still my favorite. Now, I would hope the overdipped stripped out coins get BB'd. Some dipping is just as bad as AT!

[zzpot-migration]

Hlo guys

 

 

Hey how about just cleaning them with hot water and maybe alittle soap ?

 

 

You know getting that 100 crude out of the groves.......

 

 

thanks

[crito]

The only 100% wrong way to clean a coin is abrasively. Never, ever rub a coin, wipe it with a cloth, or brush it. Some soaps contain abrasives and tap water contains chlorine which reacts with silver. Using comercial products specifically design for the task would be better. Better yet would be to just leave it alone or send it to professionals like NCS.

 

[Oldtrader3]

zzpot:

Since you are new, I will repeat earlier warnings on cleaning coins. "Soap" is not a good way to clean a coin for a couple reasons. Firstly, many soaps have pumice or some abrasion agent or caustic solution added to assist removing soil. Many of these agents will scratch or chemically damage coins. Secondly, detergent residue is very hard to remove completely without rubbing the surface of a coin. Thus causing damage.

 

If you wish to remove soil, send the coin to be conserved or dip it in clean toulene, but do not rub it.