Gobrecht Dollar: Designers and Engravers

[Zoins]

It seems that the Gobrecht Dollar uses a Seated Liberty design by Thomas Sully and a Flying Eagle design by Titian Peale. Is it appropriate to say that Sully and Peale are the designers associated with the Gobrecht Dollar while Christian Gobrecht is the engraver?

[Tradedollarnut]

Those two did the conceptuals, no doubt - but the final design was Gobrecht's. And a mighty fine design it is!

 

[Hoot]

The idea was that of Robert M. Patterson, Director of the Mint. The artwork was that of Sully and Peale, rendered many times at the behest of changes requested by Patterson. The engraving was that of Gobrecht, and so pleased was Patterson that he requested that Gobrecht place his name prominently below the base of the plinth. That execution did not fly well with others in the Mint, Treasury, and Congress, so Gobrecht's name was moved to the base of the plinth. Patterson gave final approval to the design and manufacture of the new dollar, which he was a stickler for. Without Patterson, the dollar would never have come to be, thus I've long thought it should be named the Patterson dollar in honor of its designer and "father," so to speak; not to diminish the wonderful talents of Gobrecht.

 

Superb piece, TDN.

 

Hoot

[MBA101]

Those two did the conceptuals, no doubt - but the final design was Gobrecht's. And a mighty fine design it is!

 

 

This design is my absolute favorite of all...

 

This eyes...those lips...those eagles...

[Zoins]

The idea was that of Robert M. Patterson, Director of the Mint. The artwork was that of Sully and Peale, rendered many times at the behest of changes requested by Patterson. The engraving was that of Gobrecht, and so pleased was Patterson that he requested that Gobrecht place his name prominently below the base of the plinth. That execution did not fly well with others in the Mint, Treasury, and Congress, so Gobrecht's name was moved to the base of the plinth. Patterson gave final approval to the design and manufacture of the new dollar, which he was a stickler for. Without Patterson, the dollar would never have come to be, thus I've long thought it should be named the Patterson dollar in honor of its designer and "father," so to speak; not to diminish the wonderful talents of Gobrecht.

Thanks Hoot. I was wondering how much liberty Gobrecht took in changing Sully and Peale's designs, if any. From the above it seems that Patterson would not have allowed him much liberty given how many repetitions he made the artists go through. Are the original art by Sully and Peale still available? From the above I would say Sully and Peale are the designers with Gobrecht being the engraver. This is similar to comic books which have pencilers and inkers. I think it is reasonable to say the final product is closer to that of the inker (which is a very important skill and task) but the art was done by the penciler. Interesting, and perhaps appropriate, take on calling it the "Patterson dollar" given that it was his vision, instruction and persistence that led to the coin.

 

Another take on this is that perhaps "designer" isn't an appropriate word for coins. Perhaps there are artists and engravers, but not designers.

 

That is a gorgeous coin TDN!

[Tradedollarnut]

I don't think it's fair to suggest that Gobrecht was not the final artist. The conceptuals by Sully and Peale were not exact ... Gobrecht modified each, particularly for the obverse. In addition, he created the balance of the coin, which is no small task.

[Zoins]

I don't think it's fair to suggest that Gobrecht was not the final artist. The conceptuals by Sully and Peale were not exact ... Gobrecht modified each, particularly for the obverse.

The engraver translates the painter/penciler's work to metal and perhaps there is some modification (poetic license as it were) but I would consider the art to be that of the painter/penciler, not the engraver. One way to think of this is if a work by Da Vinci or Michaelangelo is interpreted and placed on to a medal, would the artist of the medal be the engraver or the painter of the original work?

In addition, he created the balance of the coin, which is no small task.

True but in printing parlance that would be the layout of the coin. Layout is also an important task and is responsible for the overall composition but does not necessarily make the layout person also the artist.

[Tradedollarnut]

Sorry - I've seen the drawings prepared by Sully and they aren't close enough to the final design for me to agree that Gobrecht was not the designer [artist] of the coin.

 

Perhaps we should wonder who the designer of the flying eagle cent is?

[Zoins]

I've seen the drawings prepared by Sully and they aren't close enough to the final design for me to agree that Gobrecht was not the designer [artist] of the coin.

Are these available online anywhere? I haven't seen these so it's hard for me to make a judgment but I didn't take the words "not exact" to mean dramatic changes. Perhaps the changes are more dramatic than I was led to believe.

[Tradedollarnut]

Not that I found in a search. Do you have Bowers Encyclopedia?

[Zoins]

Do you have Bowers Encyclopedia?

Not at the moment but I can try to find one. It seems like it would be a worthwhile exercise.

[Zoins]

Perhaps we should wonder who the designer of the flying eagle cent is?

Perhaps we should. I am leaning towards saying the artist is Titian Peale but need to see some original sketches. It seems to me that numismatists often celebrate the engraver, perhaps at the expense of the artist (though sometimes they may be the same person). Establishing the artist is becoming an area of interest of mine.

[Tradedollarnut]

You need the big 1992 version of Bowers' 'Silver and Trade Dollars of the United States - A Complete Encyclopedia'. It's fascinating reading and tons of great information!

[Zoins]

I'll try to get a hold of it. It sounds like it is well worth the read

[TomB]

I agree that Gobrecht is the designer of this issue. Below is a photograph of a portion of p41 of Numismatic Art in America: Aesthetics of the United States Coinage. This is Cornelius Vermeule's masterpiece on United States numismatics and is my favorite numismatic book of all time.

[Zoins]

Thanks for the post Tom. If exhibits 33 and 34 are the final sketches by Sully and Peale then I would agree that Gobrecht is the designer/artist for the coin in exhibit 35. I would say that Gobrecht's Liberty is inspired by Sully's work as there are clear similarities. I'm not sure I would go as far as to say Gobrecht's eagle is inspired by Peale's as there are many eagles out there and they look sufficiently different to me. If this is the final Peale eagle, then I would say that Gobrecht is the artist for the FEC as well.

[Hoot]

I don't think it's fair to give Gobrecht the credit for the design. Again, it was Patterson who put the entire progression of art, including Gobrecht's translations, under a microscope for his personal vision of the coin. I believe that the records of the process are likely incomplete (and we likely do not have complete record of the artwork), but what is clear is that it was Patterson's idea and design, while it was Gobrecht's translation - a unique blend of vision and artwork. Also again, I don't think this diminishes Gobrecht's artistry, talent, or hand in the process, but he simply did not design the coin.

 

As for the FEC, Longacre did a great job copying Gobrecht's final rendition of the flying eagle (and placing it on a new denomination), but he was by no means the designer of the image or its translation to coinage. The designer was Patterson and the engraving artist was Gobrecht; Longacre (whom I greatly admire) was a copycat on that one.

 

Hoot

[Zoins]

I'm guessing we'll probably never know the extent to which Patterson dictated aspects of the final design vs. approving of what Gobrecht came up with. What records still remain? If we assume that Patterson provided instruction on every aspect of the final design, it seems that calling Patterson the designer and Gobrecht the artist might be appropriate.

[BillJones]

The whole concept of the seated liberty has its roots in the seated Britannia that has appeared on English coins for many, many years. One may look at a not very English penny to see a version of her. The idea of a seated figure on American coins grew from that origin. Ms. Britannia, in turn, has her origins in the seated figures that appeared on imperial Roman coins.

 

I have a couple coins (English and Roman) I could photograph, but I’ll have to find them first.

[Hoot]

Indeed, the seated Liberty effigy owes a lot to Brittania. Here's an excerpt from Coin Values, 2006, May. Strong Influences: Many hands aid birth of Seated Liberty design. Coin Values, Feature: pp. 40-42, 44, 46.:

 

"The so-called Gobrecht dollar, which bears a seated figure of Liberty on the obverse, and a flying eagle on the reverse in a field of 26 stars (one for each state in the Union), was largely the brainchild of Director Patterson. It was Patterson’s appreciation for French and English numismatic artistry that drove him to push for a new silver dollar that would place American coin art (as well as technical quality) at the forefront of world numismatics. Patterson was intent upon a seated Liberty figure for the obverse and a flying eagle for the reverse of a new American silver dollar.

 

Indeed, Patterson had anticipated a new dollar coin prior to the arrival of Gobrecht and prior to Kneass’s stroke. Patterson had asked Kneass to attempt a drawing of a seated Liberty figure, based largely on the figure of Britannia from the British penny and half penny of the time. Kneass had complied, but his subsequent stroke had left the new Director with the onus of finding artistic talent that could take the project to completion.

 

Patterson quickly brought together a team of artists and engravers, the likes of which had never been seen in the employ of the Mint. Patterson engaged Thomas Sully, an established specialist in American portraits, and Titian Peale, a well known naturalist-painter who specialized in bird portraiture, to create the artwork on which would be based the obverse and reverse dollar designs.

 

By October of 1835, Peale and Sully had modified Kneass’s seated Liberty to better fit the expectations of Patterson, and Gobrecht had produced a copper plate impression, suitable to submit to Secretary Woodbury. Gobrecht’s efforts were welcomed enthusiastically, setting the stage for development of the new silver dollar coin.

 

Work on the dies and patterns for the new dollar coin proceeded steadily from late 1835 through 1836. Pattern pieces of the Gobrecht dollar were submitted to Secretary Woodbury, as well as President Jackson and his cabinet. Few criticisms were offered, the most significant of which was to increase the length of the pole on which the pileus (Phrygian cap) was perched.

 

Ultimately, Patterson was so pleased with the execution of the seated Liberty design that he encouraged the placement of “C. GOBRECHT F.” for “Christian Gobrecht, Fecit (the Latin for “made it”) boldly below the base of the plinth on which Liberty sat. Pattern pieces (experimental or trial pieces) were struck with Gobrecht’s signature as Patterson promoted, but were quickly rejected with rank criticism of the attention that the signature demanded. Objections of such bold artistic claim resulted in the signature being moved to the base of the plinth itself, and thusly incuse.

 

What followed in the course of 1836 through 1839 were a series of low mintage dollar coins...

 

One might claim, rightfully, that the concept of a seated Liberty, a uniquely American interpretation of the allegorical seated figure, belongs strictly to its inventor, Robert Patterson. Additionally, the concept of a flying eagle in a field (sky, really) of stars is also Patterson’s own concept. On the other hand, the artistic design of Liberty seated is surely that of Peale and Sully, Peale having contributed an original form concept and Sully having refined it significantly to a visage that imparted a sense of grace. And the flying eagle is unquestionably the artistic rendering of Peale. Gobrecht, however, was the final arbiter of each design, reinterpreting Sully’s final drawing in preparation of engraving it into a die, then translating images from page to relief in metal. As tradition has it, the Engraver is the artist to whom the medallic image belongs, thus we refer to the dollars of 1836-1839 as “Gobrecht dollars.” ...

 

In his book entitled Numismatic Art in America, Cornelius Vermeule states “… the seated Liberty on the obverse of the silver dollar and its divisions is a thoroughly American creation…” Vermeule and others indicate that the portrait of a seated Liberty arose from Greek and Roman allegorical forms, and that the primal influence for the development of such a figure on American coinage arises from ancient roots. This is tempered somewhat by knowledge that Patterson was specifically taken with the image of Britannia (defender of England) on English coinage. Indeed, the seated form of Liberty greatly resembles the seated Britannia.

 

Gobrecht’s Liberty sits on a rock or stone pedestal, resembling a plinth (rock base) of a statue. (On English coinage of the time, Britannia sat atop a rock representing the island of England.) The high relief of the Gobrecht dollar presents Liberty in statuesque form, but may be more directly considered an elevated place of honor, much like a stone throne. Liberty is adorned with a chiton, which is a long, flowing tunic worn typically by rulers and those of high status in ancient Greece. The chiton is buttoned at the shoulder, and the folds of Liberty’s chiton are fashioned to flow naturally, and are quite similar in form to those of the seated Britannia.

 

 

Liberty herself, however, and the seated design owe a lot to antiquity. Here's more from the same article:

 

 

"If we look back to the roots of Liberty or Britannia, then we find ourselves in the firmament of Roman and Greek symbolism. Indeed, a look through Ancient Greek and Roman Coins, by Zander H. Klawans, K.E. Bressett, Ed., reveals that the Romans had many of their allegorical effigies stamped into seated figures on coins. Among these, I found Chastity/Modesty, Justice, Piety/Dutifulness, Patience/Endurance, Fortune, Indulgence/Mercy, Corn Harvest (Plenty), Peace, and Security/Confidence. What a line-up of virtues! Many of these appeared on coinage in the first and second century A.D. And leaping back even further into similar symbols of the Greeks, one can find the three goddesses – thought to be the Fates in Patterson’s time – seated atop their stone thrones in the east pediment of the Parthenon, circa 432-438 B.C. The Fates, of course, were symbolic of the destiny of the nation and its people. In a deep sense, therefore, the virtue of Liberty is passed to us in a classic form, the seated Liberty, and harkens the destiny of our nation."

 

Hoot