Monster dollars not as scarey anymore.

[truthteller]

Talked to two major dealers. Super colored common date dollars have really cooled down. Apparently, a mini hoard was sold over the two auctions at ANA and the buyers were having a difficult time selling. I have been told, the days of $1000 MS65 colored coins are gone. I wonder what Long Beach will bring?

 

TRUTH

[ArtR]

I have been told, the days of $1000 MS65 colored coins are gone.

This may be true for Morgans that just fall into the nice category, but not the Monster Category. Maybe some of the new collectors that jumped onto the toned band wagon in the last couple of years have finally realized (some the hard way) that they were paying monster money for just nice coins. As far as the latest ANA Auctions. The only one that I checked was the Heritage sale. There were about 300+ toned Morgans in the sale, and in my opinion there were some nice coins, but none that I would consider Monster.

[Tonekiller-migration]

We sold 60% of our inventory at the ANA show and all were toners. I would agree that the C to B+ color coins have come down in price both as a seller and buyer. The A to A+ color coins MS63 Star and up are still very hot and going for strong monies at shows and over the internet.

 

I expect Long Beach to be strong with A to A+ color coins and weak with MS62-64 C to B+ color coin. Toned Type and Barbers at high grade (NGC or PCGS) also seem to be very hot right now and I do not expect them to cool down this year.

 

IMHO,

 

Bryan

 

[ArtR]

I guess I am just getting old, but I need some one some day to explain the A, B, and C color categories to me.

[dragon]

truth,

 

I think a reason that some dealers feel that way is because so many of them are now asking absurd prices for marginal coins, and they are going unsold. Many dealers will see or hear about a spectacular toned dollar selling for 2 or 3K and think that theirs should be worth similar prices just because it also has 'pretty colors' which is not the case,,,,I agree with Art that the true world class toned pieces are still very few and far between these days and still worth very strong money, and I actually thought that many of the just so-so toned dollars in the recent Heritage sale brought way more than they should have.

 

dragon

[Tonekiller-migration]

I guess I am just getting old, but I need some one some day to explain the A, B, and C color categories to me.

 

Art,

 

Its a rating system that Bryan Sonnier came up with over the last 20 years. Works well but uses his top end coins as a benchmark.......which as you know is somewhere around A+++.

 

Dragon,

 

I would agree with your statement.

 

Bryan

[ArtR]

Bryan (TBT) thanks for the information. In other words another way of defining Godzilla, Monster, Nice, and Ugly.

[Dog97]

truthteller

Myself and several other Morgan collectors have noticed that in the last several months.

We attribute it to several reasons; all the AT doctors hawking their wares on eBay; every AT Morgan that tonecoin2001 or swimmer sells means 1 less sale for a dealer with "reputable" coins. I put reputable in parenthesis because reputable really means little when PCGS & NGC are slabbing toned Morgans that look no different than the raw ones the doctors sell.

Another reason is that people have got wise to the eBay sellers that use souped up pictures & hype + the magical 3 degree tilt with trick lighting that make their common junk look monster and the has killed the frenzy somewhat.

Plain & simple collectors have gotten tired of being shanked by these snakes that sell toners that really suck but won't return them because of the restocking fees, and other restrictive return costs.

Another reason is that the nice ones have already been bought and hidden away in collections. I buy a toned Morgan every now and again myself and all you see on eBay, TeleTrade, & Heritage are the most disgusting, hideous looking things I ever seen, most of the time covered with fingerprints, but presented as something really rare & special, not to mention "RAINBOW!!" and expected to bring record prices.

I'll agree with the other guys that say the truely nice ones still bring ok money but they sell so infrequently you really can't determine any market trends from them.

The market for common low grade ugly junk is dead and LB will prove me right.

[michael]

foe me

what many call monster or even really nicely tonedmorgan dollars are really NOT CLOSE AT ALL!!

 

to get something really gem grade or higher with great technical aspects that is super nice to moneter toned is still a rare in demand bird and always will be

 

even better is the superb gem technical aspect barbers and 19th to early 20 th century type coins that are monster to nicely toned!! that is where the real value is

 

or as someone has said the A to Aplus toned coins these are the coins that bring the big money and are currently in demand and if the coin has superb gem technical aspects to it and is a 19 to 20 century typew coin all the better as they are even rarer than the same toned morgans and are still great to fantastic values

 

here are photos of Aplus PLUS ++ toned 19 century coins that are all superb gem PLus coins!

 

[michael]

again as per the above

[michael]

and again as per the above monster toned and with superb technical qualities

[michael]

and again and all these coins are much better sight seen they look many times better in person sihght seen and also are still much better values then their morgAN COUNTERPARTS

 

[michael]

and again

[truthteller]

My eyes! My eyes! Too much color to absorb all at once! I REALLY like the half dime and three cent nickel very much.

 

TRUTH

[Tonekiller-migration]

Very nice coin Michael. Thanks for posting them.

 

TBT

[Oldtrader3]

Pretty soon we are going to need a multi-axis pocket computer to price coins. We will have:

Grade (P1- through MS70++++++),

Color (A++++++ through F-),

Eye Appeal (1***** through 5*),

Toning (A++++++ through F-)

Rarity (R-1 through R-8),

Attribution (O-1 through O-10),

Marketability (M-1 through M-10),

Promotability (Pm-1 through Pm-10)

 

So, a representative $1000. Barber Quarter becomes a: MS65+++, A++, 1****, R-5, O-4, M-6, Pm-9.

 

Just slightly tongue-in-cheek, but scary none the less. If you don't think that this will scare the pants off a new collector???????

[michael]

thanks truth and tbt

 

truth the three cent nickel is one of the finest toned three cent nickels known and the same with the halfdime

 

in person the halfdime which is ms is fully prooflike and strongly cameoed

 

well old trader all i can say is since i have been doing this for so long i can actually do your designations with ease for coins within my specialiy i guess after 24/7 for over 38 years it is in my blood and second nature to me

 

as for new collectods i really cant say?? i guess for me it is fun and always a learning process and something to strive for

 

coins is something that is a growth experience and an acquried taste it takes years and decades of experience to get to the point where you can really see something and know exactly what it is and be able to rate it on your scale of designations and believe me it is worth the study and wait as for me what else am i going to do that is as fun a hobby as coins? i have patience and i can wait and enjoy it along the way and smell the roses so to speak

 

that is most of the fun...........

 

michael

 

oh and here is another coin

[michael]

oh here it is early commems can also be great values combined with technical superb aspects

 

like this boone

 

this is a true monster toned coin

 

the photo doesnot show the true rainbow colors of this coin

[barberlover-migration]

Michael, remember, you promised me first crack at your 3 cent silver piece !!!

 

Do you think I would have to sell more blood then there is in my body at the blood bank to afford it ?

!

[michael]

thanks barberlover! you will have enough!

 

you have a really good eye i would have liked to see that ms67 seated quarter you sold recently

 

thanks for always posting positive threads and comments on the boards!

 

michael

[michael]

now here is yet another toned coin unfortunately this coin to see its actual merits you need to see it in person as the scan is nowhere near the sight seen eye appeal of this coin

 

the mirrors are deep and this coin is actually a superb gem proof and the toning is classic album toning with this cobalt blue tone and this 1862 in the legend obverse proof dime series is one of the lowest pops because usually for whatever reason this date comes scrubbed to death hense usually ugly and never seen gem proof let alone choice!

 

and i would take a flyer educated guess and say the maiority of the proof65 and higher 1862 dimes in major grading services holders are if true gems in the holders they are in are really dark bordering blueblack coins that hinder the mirrors and may hide hairlines!!!

 

to find an 1862 looking like this coin with the exceptional toning/exe appeal deepmirrors and not heavy darkly toned ...........is well rare

 

a monster undervalued forgotten coin but the collectors are rare for this coin and there is not rabid demand for this coin like many other series!

 

not that anyone really cares with seated dimes.........

well let alone knows or cares.......... but be that as it may

 

you never see the 1862 date looking like this there are a couple of deep cameos in proof graded and both coins are well ugly dipped out .............

 

if you like older 19 century proofs and seated dimes and the 1862 date then if you saw this coin in person it would make a grown man weep

 

if you would see this coin and then see another 1862 that is better than this coin i would BUY IT AS THEN YOU GOT THE FINEST KNOWN BY A MILE!!!!!!

 

again the scan does not show this but this coin when seen in person by someone who understands and knows what they are looking at this coin is a one in a million coin graded proof65 by pcgs this to me is a no brainer easy 66 coin any day of the week but pcgs when this coin was graded years ago does not like medium+ toned coins like this they will undergrade a medium+ toned coin like this but that is okie by me as then this coin is not mazed out in its respective holder

 

but again such is market acceptance and the subjective nature of the coin game that is what makes it so fun!!

 

the key to this coin is basically that this coin is a really super nice 65 proof gem coin

BUT THE REAL KEY TO THIS COIN THAT REally makes it special

 

IS THE OVERALL :LOOK: THE EXCEPTIONAL EXTRAORDINARY EYE APPEAL

 

michael

 

[michael]

of the hundreds if not thousands of proof seated dimes i have seen over the years

 

the above 1862 just has a look i cant explain the scan does capture it somewhat in person but if you saw this coin in person and understood how seated dimes come

 

this coin would just talk to you and sing to you it would make you heart race

 

i would not allow anyone to look at this coin in person sight that has a weak heart!!

 

michael

[truthteller]

Coin show at Michael's house! Are you going to provide refreshment?

 

TRUTH

[keithdagen]

Coin show at Michael's house! Are you going to provide refreshment?

 

TRUTH

 

Heck Truth, you get the show organized and I'll bring the refreshments. That's getting off cheap to see those beauties in person.

[bigd5]

I'll bring the food!

 

 

[michael]

thanks truth keith and bigd!!!!!

 

just bring yourselves!! we can go out for the all you can eat KFC feast

 

 

now here is another coin this coin is fully struck and has an incredible thick glazed skin totally original and so rare as such with pre 1835 federal silver coinage

 

you just do not see coins like this and the piece de resistance so to speak is the rainbow toning imparted by an album and this coin was probably in the album over 75 or more years!!

to understand this coin you need to see it sight seen it has this thick deep toning right into the coin and it has an oil slick sheen to it over the thick skinned dull glazed look not highly lusterous but lusterous none the less

 

and again 100% fully struck a highly unusual coin rarely seen like this!

 

michael