Interesting ethical scenario from across the street.

[truthteller]

This story was posted on the PCGS boards. Some of the responses were interesting, some were chilling.

 

 

 

 

" Thursday August 14, 2003 10:04 PM (NEW!)

 

 

 

Question for people...since there are all these "ethic" questions.....

 

So, I was in the local coin shop today by where I work. I bought there once as a trial experience, and kept it small. I have not bought another coin there yet (some small supplies, yes, but coins no). I go back to see if there is anything really neat that I would want. But, their stock is average and their prices high.

 

So, anyway, I was there today looking at the "junk" bins. A guy walks in and asks the guy behind the counter (not the owner, but the helper) what he should do for his friend.....his friend's dad passed away a year or so ago and left a lot of coins. Many different types, grades, etc. His friend made a list and there are "all the lincolns" and others. He doesn't have the list. He is looking for someplace to send the coins to have someone look and see if there is anything of value (didn't appear to want someone to spend their time for free and seemed to be willing to support a paid estimate).

 

Guy behind counter says he can bring them in and they will do a quick look over but a list wouldn't be that great (can't evaluate the coin, etc....I agree with that).

Guy behind the counter strongly kept suggesting to bring them in and leave them for awhile.

 

customer thanked him and said he would tell his friend, then left.

 

Now, I am not interested in causing the coin dealer to lose business or hurt his business, and I wasn't sure what to do, so I minded my own business.

What I wanted to do was to follow the guy and suggest to him to spend $15 or so for the redbook in the store.

I also wanted to suggest that I look at the coins .....I am not a dealer but, I would be honest (just not an expert) and maybe I would have had first choice...always a dream

I also thought about suggesting a couple of local dealers I have bought from at trade shows that I have bought from and think would be good to provide a 2nd and 3rd estimate.

 

So, was I bad in not talking to guy and giving him unsolicited advice?

Was I more right in keeping my mouth shut?

I think that if he, or his friend, bring the coins to this particular dealer, they will either get screwed or not the best they could have done (even locally.....the Seattle/Bellevue area in Washington State)

 

What would others have done? As a collector? As a fellow dealer?

 

Thanks for the thoughts....

 

Ron"

 

[truthteller]

Some folks actually said it was 'OK' to follow the guy out of the store and give the seller some 'extra' information. One poster related a story that he bought a coin deal from under the coin shop in the parking lot.

 

So to those who think it's OK to do this, here's a related story.

 

 

Guy works for Adobe systems, visits a friend in Seattle who works for Microsoft. Guy stands outside of Microsoft headquarters and waits for friend, meanwhile overhearing a conversation about the new software that is coming out three months from now. The employees begin to leave to their car, so Guy follows them off the MS property and waves to pull over the employess. Guy then offers the employees thousands of dollars to buy MS software. Employees agree and Adobe comes out with identical product two months before Microsoft. I guess what Guy did was OK since he was off Microsoft property, right?

 

 

TRUTH

[Hoot]

"I think that if he, or his friend, bring the coins to this particular dealer, they will either get screwed or not the best they could have done"

 

I think you should have contacted the guy. I especially think so given that you'd be willing to send him along to a couple more people and get further estimates. The fellow probably doesn't know how vulnerable he is and should be educated a bit. So, educate.

 

Hoot

[BushMan]

Anybody notice that it is beginning to look a little like the Beverly Hillbillies over there? A comedy of errors. No business ethics and a complete lack of decorum. You can take the hillbilly out of the mountains, but you can't take the mountains out of the hillbilly.

[reid1836]

It would have been a nice gesture to have given the fellow some free advice. I also would have recommended that he purchase some form of a value list for coins. This would have given him some idea as to what would be a reasonable offer. Yet, I`m just hillbilly visiting this side of the street so what do I know of ethics?

Ya`ll come back now ya here!

[coinman1794]

So to those who think it's OK to do this, here's a related story.

 

 

Guy works for Adobe systems, visits a friend in Seattle who works for Microsoft. Guy stands outside of Microsoft headquarters and waits for friend, meanwhile overhearing a conversation about the new software that is coming out three months from now. The employees begin to leave to their car, so Guy follows them off the MS property and waves to pull over the employess. Guy then offers the employees thousands of dollars to buy MS software. Employees agree and Adobe comes out with identical product two months before Microsoft. I guess what Guy did was OK since he was off Microsoft property, right?

 

 

It's not nearly the same senario because in the coin story, the dealer is ripping someone off, but in the software story, there is no foul play at MS. You are greatly helping someone out (and preventing the dealer from stealing) in the coin story, and merely stealing software in the MS story.

[shirohniichan]

How does the collector know the dealer is going to "rip off" the inquirer?

 

I see this insufficiently_thoughtful_person savant behavior in the car business all the time. A friend who supposedly "knows cars" comes along with a buyer to help him with the deal. The know-it-all friend insists we are trying to rip the buyer off by buying his trade-in for far too little money. The know-it-all has looked on the Internet and found that the retail price on the trade in is $3,000 more than our offer. Even after we explain that the retail price is just that (a retail price), that trade-ins need to be reconditioned at best and sold to a wholesaler at worst, and that we sell our used cars far below suggested retail price, the know-it-all insists that this is the "real" price for the beat up car. He also insists that his friend buy the new car at invoice price, not pay the destination charge, and demand part of the holdback.

 

The know-it-all may have the best intentions, but all he is doing is keeping his friend from buying any car except one that no one else wants (and is thus loaded with incentives to get it off the lot). Similarly, telling someone who doesn't know anything about coins or the coin market that his family member's coins are worth Red Book values is doing him a disservice. Not only will no dealer pay full retail for the common coins in the collection, but neither will most collectors.

[Dog97]

truthteller

I've been short on time lately and haven't read much on any board so I don't know if I sound like a comedian or what but the best thing you can do in somebody else's place of business in mind your own business.

But as it stands right now Ron @ the counter overheard a rumor from somebody that knows somebody that knew somebody that may have had a hoard & it's for sale now. If Ron persues this wild lead & it pans out then goodie for Ron.

Ron was in the right by not interfering @ offering unsolicted advice @ the time.

[ldhair]

The poll with that thread was interesting.

62% said "Said nothing at all - it is someone else's store/business"

 

The other 38% need to think again.

 

Someone there made a great comment, something like

When you start paying the bills to run the shop you can say something. Very true.

 

Just my opinion-If it ain't your store keep shut.

 

Larry

 

 

[Please Delete-migration]

Does it change anything for anyone if you happen to know the person who walked in? Like maybe it's your neighbor down the street, the minister at the church downtown, the grocery clerk at the supermarket you shop at, a hot member of the opposite sex who is single and available and works in the same building as yourself? Not someone who you are friends with or interact with but are familiar with.

[ldhair]

I'll have to think about the hot member of the opposite sex part

[Oldtrader3]

Technology Piracy (stealing trade secrets) is against the law. The guy from Adobe puts himself in a position of possibly being prosecuted, certainly of being sued for beaucoup bucks in Civil Courts.

 

The two scenarios are not the same. The coin dealer's assistant has taken no action to take advantage of the inquirer. I make it a policy to mind my own business while in another person's business. If they break the law, turn them in, otherwise stay out of it.