Modern US Commems - Slab 'em!!!

[291fifth]

With a large number of modern US commems now being slabbed I suspect the market for these may increase. I have thought for some time that the bulky government packaging has been holding back these issues. Once they are slabbed they will be much easier to display.

 

1. Dealers find it hard to store, transport and display them and as a result don't promote them.

2. The slabbing services are now actively seeking modern material and are offering rates that make slabbing attractive.

 

Especially watch some of the 1995-2000 issues. These had a combination of low mintages and relatively good designs.

 

 

[JD-migration]

With a large number of modern US commems now being slabbed I suspect the market for these may increase. I have thought for some time that the bulky government packaging has been holding back these issues. Once they are slabbed they will be much easier to display. Dealers find it hard to store, transport and display them and as a result don't promote them.

 

While modern commemoratives are more difficult to transport than slabs, I don't concur that Dealer's don't promote modern commemoratives. Two or three years ago the general concensus among dealers was to avoid modern commems because they would never be worth anything. I think this attitude was "left over" from the mints saturation of the early, classic commemoratives.

 

As slabs go in modern commemoratives, I have personally noticed that coins, complete with original mint packaging and COA bring at least equal and often greater sales value than a slabbed MS69. I have spoken to several dealers with slabbed modern commemoratives for sale and most have told me that someday the packaging & COA will be worth more than the coins and have the packaging in storage. Try to buy the 32 coin mint box for the Olympic series. It's difficult to find and not cheap if you do.

 

My opinion is that the virtually all modern commemoratives will grade 68-70, with the greatest grouping in the 69 category, an opinion supported by the NGC population reports. A review of the NGC Registry Set for Modern Commemoratives will reveal several sets with the vast majority grading 70. Registry set participation and preservation are about the only reasons I can see for slabbing these coins. I would advise anyone with modern commemoratives in original and complete mint packaging, with a desire to slab, to save the mint packaging.

 

Ease of display and even preservation can be accomplished in other ways than slabbing and at less expense. No doubt, there is a segment of the market seeking slabbed coins, but I do not concur that "all should be slabbed" to further the marketability and interest of this series.

 

Good topic!

[keithdagen]

The problem you run into is that for every low mintage commem with a decent design, you have nine commems that have high mintages and are butt ugly.

 

Compound the problem that almost 100% of the dealers who sell slabbed modern commems try to offer them at unrealistic prices. Why am I going to pay Heritage or David Lawrence $50 for a commem I can buy raw for $15 and slab for $10?

 

 

[291fifth]

I am now putting together a set of the dollar proofs and selected gold proofs. I am buying virtually all raw and am sending them in myself. Since I suspect they will average PR69 and I am not willing to pay any premium for a holder that says PR70 this is the least expensive way to go. There is no reason to pay inflated prices for modern commems. They are not particularly popular at the moment and plenty are available. eBay is loaded with modern commems.This is the time to buy, not after they become popular.

 

One additional reason why I think they should be slabbed has to do with contamination from the mint cases. I have noticed many of the issues are developing haze on the surfaces. I suspect that this is coming from some chemical(s) used in the mint packaging. It may not be safe to leave the coins in the mint packaging.

 

I think the current mint director recognizes that there are serious problems with coin design at the mint. We can't take many more muddled and boring designs like the West Point dollar.

She is also well aware of the problems with the Lewis & Clark Expedition nickel. Too many of our commems have the look of 1970's era private mint medals-technically well produced but without any artistic merit.

[Hoot]

It's interesting to hear from JD that the original packaging will be worht as much as the coin in the future. I wonder if this will prove true, as I've always saved the packaging and COA so that I have that to go with my coin. Just look at how valuable original packaging is for the classic commems, and it gives you a feel for the potential.

 

I plan on placing my Wright Bros commems in one of NGC's new multiholders, when available. That will be a cool presentation set and will place the set together much as the Mint should upon release. (What the heck happened to the multi-coin sets?) I'll, again, keep all the packaging. (BTW, I think NGC is the only service that grades modern commems correctly).

 

"We can't take many more muddled and boring designs like the West Point dollar."

 

Funny, I rather like the West Point dollar, as the design has symbolic merit and is rather attractive IMO.

 

"She is also well aware of the problems with the Lewis & Clark Expedition nickel."

 

No such concern was voiced at the ANA meetings in Baltimore. For the most part, nickel collectors voiced strong support for the upcoming design of Schlag's obverse coupled with the Jefferson Indian Peace Medal reverse in a modified design. I think it will look rather good and the Peace Medal design appears to be gathering good support from political groups as well, including the Indian nations. My only gripe with the coin is the same as for all modern circulation strikes: the relief of the coin is too low.

 

Hoot

[291fifth]

Re: mint coin design

 

Please see the article "Director Fore discusses coin design "renaissance" on page 4 of the August 19, 2003 issue of NUMISMATIC NEWS.

[Hoot]

Since I don't subscribe to NN, please place a link to the article here.

 

My information simply comes from the Pres. and VP of the Jefferson Full Step Nickel Club who attended the meeting on the redesign of the Jefferson nickel for the latter part of 2003 and the upcoming 2004-2005 nickels. In their words, there was great excitement over the potential for upcoming designs and a sense of welcoming among Mint officials and collectors as well. Their biggest concern was that they wished to see meaningful designs. The (potential) 2003 design (it may be 2004, but they are trying to get it out late this year) sounds excellent and was generally highly regarded in the meetings in Baltimore. (Schlag's obverse with the Jefferson Indian Peace Medal reverse with the modification that "The Louisiana Purchase of 1803" or some such insciption would form the lettering on the reverse upper rim. Sounds cool.

 

BTW, Beth Deisher sounds pretty excited over the upcoming nickel redesigns. She's written a fair bit on it in Coin World recently. There have been some decent editorials as well.

 

Thanks, Hoot

[keithdagen]

Hoot,

 

Was there any disappointment expressed in returning to the old design after this one is up, or in Congress limiting what can or cannot be on the coin?

[Hoot]

There was little segway into that discussion, from what I understand, as the focus was primarily on the 2003 redesign and what the next 2 years may hold. The general sentiment among collectors (which was being murmured quite a bit) is that the return to the Jefferson/Monticello theme is unfortunate but if the law cannot be changed, at least the current Schlag designs can. I think that there will be strong opposition to return to the current design when that time comes. We could very likely end up with a different portrait of Jefferson on the obv. and a different view of Monticello on the reverse (perhaps similar to the 1993 commem or with a modification of Schlag's initial reverse design). There is already opposition growing to the current law and there will likely be a fight to overturn the law to return to the Jefferson/Monticello design.

 

Hoot

[JD-migration]

There is no reason to pay inflated prices for modern commems. They are not particularly popular at the moment and plenty are available. eBay is loaded with modern commems.This is the time to buy, not after they become popular.

 

At some point, it becomes necessary to define the term "inflated prices". Does it mean:

(1) an exorbitent amount for a super grade common coin

or

(2) more than current, published value (whatever that is, gray sheet bid/wholesale, or one of the several retail guides like Trends) for a low mintage, scarce/rare coin.

 

There are several issues of Modern Commemoratives of less than 20,000 mintage (don't have my book here at work) If you want one of these coins, it's going to take more than a current, "published price" to buy it. In original mint packaging, good luck even finding one of these. Published prices have a way of catching up to inflated prices for low mintage coins.

 

So, what is "inflated price"?

 

I paid about 50% more than CDN gray sheet to buy a couple of MS Modern Commems in original packaging because I had looked for quite some time to no avail. That was about 18 months ago and now graysheet has surpassed what I paid, plus about 30%. Did I pay an inflated price? Maybe, but I'm glad I did, when I did. It can be a tough judgement call sometimes.

 

I wouldn't say unequivocably that "plenty are available". Some issues,yes. Others, not hardly.

 

"Not particularly popular"? Demand drives price and price has certainly been driven upwards over the last two years.

 

One additional reason why I think they should be slabbed has to do with contamination from the mint cases. I have noticed many of the issues are developing haze on the surfaces. I suspect that this is coming from some chemical(s) used in the mint packaging. It may not be safe to leave the coins in the mint packaging.

 

I've seen it too. I think it is because the capsule are not airtight and breathe with changes in temperature and pressure, allowing contaminant to be trapped inside. This is the very reason I have removed mine from the mint capsules and put the coins in Eagle holders. It also makes a great album to view all of the coins. Slabs would also be great put into Eagle albums for similar viewing pleasure and probably offer greater protection. Slabs just cost more and I have considered it for preservation.

 

 

[291fifth]

Re: Inflated Prices

 

eBay makes it very easy to determine what is overpriced. Because there are so many listings you can easily see at what levels the pieces are actually selling. You can also see how many are being offered. Some of the 1995 and 1996 Olympic proof dollars and half dollars make surprisingly few appearances and regularly sell for over gray sheet ask. The 1996 Smithsonian dollar in proof also usually sells for more than gray sheet ask.