Question about "strike"

[countlesscoins-migration]

Is there more to judging the strength of a coin's strike than just detail?

[cladking]

A great deal more.

 

Die condition is an important consideration as well as the angle at which the dies strike the coin.

 

Die condition is really two factors; what it looked like when new and the total wear and its placement. Many dies will be made from worn or degraded hubs so will never have all the detail in the original design. Die wear is a primary consideration because detail is lost as the die is used longer.

[James_OldeTowne]

Welcome to our friendly little neighborhood!

[countlesscoins-migration]

A great deal more.

 

Die condition is an important consideration as well as the angle at which the dies strike the coin.

 

Die condition is really two factors; what it looked like when new and the total wear and its placement. Many dies will be made from worn or degraded hubs so will never have all the detail in the original design. Die wear is a primary consideration because detail is lost as the die is used longer.

Thanks. There was a heated flame war in another place I didn't want them to know its being discussed here there are some bohemeths around for sure. It was about the 1921 peace dollar and I read it and was really confused with what everyone was saying.

 

I try to relay some of what was said

the 1921 peace dollar was the weakest struck in the series then another person said it was the strongest struck in the series. a bunch of people said the detail in the hair isnt there so must be weak strike then the other guy said hair wasnt the only thing to look at and that detail was just one part of the strike to judge then there was talk about high and low relief.

 

So when I go looking for numismatic defintions I see lots of differnt answers for strike. I guess Im still confused if weak strike results from low compression or lack of detail but not specific detail at a certain place then what about coins where htey had high relief strong compressed strikes and lots of detail on the dates and words but less detail on the hair?

 

Thanks for the welcome!

[Hoot]

I try to relay some of what was said

the 1921 peace dollar was the weakest struck in the series then another person said it was the strongest struck in the series. a bunch of people said the detail in the hair isnt there so must be weak strike then the other guy said hair wasnt the only thing to look at and that detail was just one part of the strike to judge then there was talk about high and low relief.

 

One matter is certain: the Morgan dollar was not high relief. (Perhaps the discussion you refer to had some disagreement about this.) The dollar was designed by George Morgan and produced under Chief Engraver Charles Barber. Barber, for whatever faults he may have had, clearly understood the value of low relief in the production of coinage for commerce. He made countless modifications to coinage through his career aimed at improving production, many of which influenced the relief of coinage. What was important there was that a coin could be struck fully (or nearly so) with a single blow from the dies. By limiting the number of strikes to a single coin, die life was improved. There's a great deal of consideration that goes into this, e.g., what designs oppose one another on the obverse and reverse of a coin, but the relief of coinage and the contiguity of major devices influences metal flow across the die and, consequently, die life. Anyhow, Barber understood these matters well and imposed his views on the final engravings used to produce coins, not the least of which were Morgan's Liberty Head dollar deigns.

 

Weak strikes vs. mushy strikes, or other aspects of striking, are sometimes poorly discerned and described. Very often, the lack of design detail is attributed to a weak strike, when there can be many other factors influencing the case.

 

Hoot

[countlesscoins-migration]

Thank you hoot, very informative. But this is about the peace dollar the 1921 not the morgan dollar of same year. Yes it seemed that there is more to the strike than just detail I guess I have one observation it seems everyone agrees the 1921 peace was a weak strike in high? relief but in looking at photos the 1921 peace dollar has more bold strike if that is word? For instance the words and dates and mintmark is very easily read and profound on the 1921 b ut is very low and almost worn on teh other dates where the hair is more detail on the other dates but not as detailed on the 1921. Not sure if the 21 peace was struck more than once but the original die was not meant for a one strike coin so they changed it from what I have read in 1922 to make the relief lower so that a weaker compression can strike the coin just once.

[Hoot]

Thank you hoot, very informative. But this is about the peace dollar the 1921 not the morgan dollar of same year.

 

But of course! You even said that the first time! Sorry.

 

The 1921 Peace dollar is considered by most to be a "high relief" coin, but it's all relative. Compared to the rest of the series, the coin is high relief, but I've compared this coin to the 1907 Saint-Gaudens HR (high relief) $20, and the two are not the same, with the Saint showing a greater relief. However, when either of those issues are compared to the pattern ultra-HR Saints, there's no comparison; nor is there a comparison to much of the Greek and early Roman coinage. So again, it's all a matter of what other coins to which one may be comparing the Peace dollar.

 

As for the issue of strike, a person can truly claim that (for the most part) the 1921 Peace dollars are not struck up fully. I don't know the details of their striking, but there's a person who does - Roger Burdette is his name and he goes by RWB on these boards. However, I'll venture to say that the 1921 Peace dollars were struck at the full capacity of the presses for the time, pushing the dies to their practical limits, but the coins were struck only once or twice. There may have been experimentation with early run pieces with striking pressure and the number of strikes required to create a fully struck coin, thus there may be a few out there that truly show full details. Fullness of strike, in this context, simply means that the outcome of striking the coin was that all of the details showed on the dollar, both obverse and reverse.

 

Your comment on "bold strike" is interesting, as it implies something different, I believe. A coin with bold devices is one that is the result of having bold devices inthe die. That's a different matter than strike, as the latter term is commonly employed. This may be splitting hairs, but sometimes precision of language demands such distinctions.

 

Thanks for the interesting ideas.

 

Hoot