How difficult or easy do you think it is for coin doctors to alter the edge ---

[carson city]

of the new Washington Dollars ? Does NGC have any tell-tail indicators that would indicate such an alteration ? Is the weight of the coin the determining factor ?

 

Ebay has, at last viewing, almost 500, "smooth edge Washington Dollars" at auction. NGC has graded several. none from PCGS. Would you pay big $$$ for an ungraded coin with this "error". I, for one, would not unless graded by NGC or PCGS. Thanks, in advance, for your comments.

[bigmanSAM88]

I wouldn't buy one if it wasn't graded because I have altered the edge of a coin to make a coin-ring and it was fairly easy to do, so I wouldn't feel safe buying one of the smooth edge coins

[MunkyMan95]

I tried it with one, it's very simple to do. The edge inscription is not deep into the coin at all. I subsequently spent the experiments, but I'm sure someone could sell them on eBay and few people would be able to tell the difference.

[Mirrored Morgan]

Would you pay big $$$ for an ungraded coin with this "error". I, for one, would not unless graded by NGC or PCGS.

 

I am with you on that Carson City, to many people with tiny little sanders that could do the job

[WoodenJefferson]

HERE'S ONE ON E-BAY ALREADY ALTERED

starting bid $78,000.00

[gedis3]

HERE'S ONE ON E-BAY ALREADY ALTERED

starting bid $78,000.00

 

OMG that is the BEST COIN LISTING EVER!!!!

 

The Q & A is freakin' hilarious!

[TJ'S Coins]

A good machinist can do outstanding things. I would not be interested in one.

[bigmanSAM88]

Why do you think he wants exactly $78,000 and not something like $100,000??

[Black00SS]

HERE'S ONE ON E-BAY ALREADY ALTERED

starting bid $78,000.00

 

By far, the most hilarious E-Bay auction I have ever seen!!

[gedis3]

Why do you think he wants exactly $78,000 and not something like $100,000??

 

Just a randomly high number to keep people from actually bidding.

 

Perhaps he paid $78 dollars for it, and adding the 3 zeros is just his way of expressing his angst.

[NoTwilight]

A good machinist can do outstanding things. I would not be interested in one.

 

I am a good machinist. I can make beautiful finishes. They look exquisitely machined. They don't look like a stamped coin edge. I am certain I could tell. Weight is also a good indicator since moderrn coins weight is very, very accurately controlled. --jerry

[copperman]

man how much would the eBay fee's for that auction be? kinda funny but sucks for the seller.

[michael]

easy if you got the right tools and skilled hands

[WoodenJefferson]

Why do you think he wants exactly $78,000 and not something like $100,000??

 

The seller dropped the price to $76,000.00 now...must be feeling the pressures of ~0~ bids.

[bsshog40]

It's too bad they didn't have something coated over the metal on these edges. Like maybe, plated the edges with a copper for instance that the edge lettering could be set in. If the lettering were to be ground/buffed off, then it would reach the original metal composite and it would show if the lettering were to be removed.

[al_e_gator]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the letters stamp IN to the edge? Altering would require filling the lettering in (not file-ing or grinding, as if they were raised) and then polishing smooth.

[gedis3]

You are correct, but they aren't in there very deeply, and the coin is a composite, so the metal looks the same all the way through,

 

A little grinding, a little buffing, and it's a done deal. About the only way to tell would be high powered magnification or a very exact weighing device. To the naked eye it would be hard to tell if it had been done by someone that put some effort into doing it carefully.

[al_e_gator]

Just so nobody gets into trouble here even though your intent might be out of curiousity or fun:

 

Posted on another thread by WoodenJefferson:

"United States Code

TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I - CRIMES

CHAPTER 25 - COUNTERFEITING AND FORGERY

 

Section 472. Uttering counterfeit obligations or securities

 

Whoever, with intent to defraud, passes, utters, publishes, or

sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or with like

intent brings into the United States or keeps in possession or

conceals any falsely made, forged, counterfeited, or altered

obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined

under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both."

[Conder101]

I can't believe that people think these would be easy to fake. Oh enough to fool a non-collector or a rank newbie maybe, but not an experienced collector. One thing we as collectors learn is what the surfaces of a genuine coin looks like. If someone were to tool or polish the faces of a coin to try and pass it off as an Unc or a proof we would spot it immediately because the surfaces would be wrong and the flowlines/luster altered. You have the SAME thing happening on the edges of the coin as well. A genuine coin struck with no edge lettering will have distinctive luster, shape, and flowlines from the working of the metal. If you take a normal coin and grind or mill off the edge the shape will probably be wrong unless the alterer is smart enough to reproduce the shape, and the surfaces/luster will be totally different with different tooling/working marks. Not to mention that the alteration would be easy to detect by measuring the diameter with a pair of calipers. (The letters may not be deeply impressed but they still seem to be at least .2 mm deep, which would mean the diameter would have to be at least .4 mm less than normal. Well outside of tolerances.)

 

The one method that everyone seems to think of using, weight, is the one that is the LEAST likely to be of any use. If you start with a regular coin of exact legal weight of 8.1 grams and tool off the edge (Assume .4 mm off the diameter) the reduction in weight would be down to 7.82 grams just barly within legal tolerance. If the coin starts out anywhere over the specified weight (Legal tolerences allow +/- .3 grams so they can be as heavy as 8.4 grams.) the final weight of the altered coin will easily be within legal weight even though the diameter will be well outside of tolerance.