A novice's coin education

[jrh-migration]

I've always liked coins and many years ago I bought a few nice ones, but had to sell them when I went back to school. Now I've begun to collect again and it has been a real education.

 

First of all I'd like to thank those who contribute to the "boards". While there are a few who post here for what seems like strange reasons (weird humor, to vent, to compete for "top" expert status, to advertise, lonely, etc.) the VAST majority seem to be genuine coin enthusiasts who are willing to share their knowledge, experience, and advice. It is greatly appreciated by the novice (like me).

 

But, it's been a bit depressing, too. It sometimes makes the novice want to quit. I've learned alot. For example:

 

1. Lots of deceptive claims and misrepresentations on web sites, auctions, e-bay. Its hard to know who is an honest seller and who you can trust. I guess life is like that in general.

 

2. Don't buy "sight unseen". After buying several Indian Cents advertised as Chioce Unc. (full red) at what seemed a reasonable price I saw in the boards a number of comments about the company I purchased them from as being one who routinely "cleaned" and sold AU as UNC (Coast to Coast, just for the record). I sent them to be authenticated and graded and (sure enough) they came back as no grade with the note "improperly cleaned". Another lesson learned. It had been awhile so I didn't bother to try to return them.

 

Anyway, my purpose is not to knock anyone (perhaps the company wasn't even the one that cleaned them, but just resold them to me in good faith). Actually, I'm greatful to them for the experience since it will undoubtedly make me more wary in the future. I'm glad I only bought the Indian Cents and not the other (more expensive) "sight unseen" coins I was considering.

 

An old adage goes ...... "a man with money met a man with experience. The man with experience left with the money and the man with money left with the experience."

 

3. Beware of "toned coins". I didn't realize there was so much controversy and difference of opinion as to AT coins (even amongst the experts). I actually have a toned NGC star Morgan, but now I wonder

 

4. The "grading game" is something to be wary of (at least for a long time, if not forever). So many seemingly reputable sellers offer NGC and PCGS coins of a certain grade with the comment about their true grade (for example NGC MS-62 but really should be 63 or 64).

 

I could go on, but I'm not sure I will. It's a shame that a few disreputable dealers and collectors can spoil things for so many others (particularly the novice like me who is not in it for money or investment, but just likes the coins). You get "burned" a few times and you have to ask if it's worth it.

[Dermott]

One of the biggest assets I had in my beginning in the world of numismatics was that I had (and still have) a reputable and sizable local coin shop that was (at that time) just a few miles away. I spent a LOT of my high school afternoons at the shop learning from the owner and even worked as an assistant for a summer. Along with the various coin publications and books, I was able to get a solid first hand education in the hobby.

 

The best way for a person to really get their feet under them in the hobby is not only to read whatever and whenever they can, but also to find an experienced dealer or other collector who has the mind and heart of a teacher and will take the time to explain what claims to believe and not, how to spot defects and deceptions, and when to simply be able to pass up something that just seems "too good". If it IS a dealer you learn from, be sure to recognize the qualties of a teacher vs those of a salesman. A teacher will actually steer you away from a lesser quality item and towards one that will serve you in the long run whereas a salesman will simply try to push you towards the highest profit items they can. Finally, take the advice, but don't let them create your collection for you. It's up to you if you like the coin or not and thus make the purchase.

 

Probably the most important lesson to learn is how to grade for yourself and to spot unnatural effects. Snag the ANA grading guide and get the feel of the grading points of each coin and then grade everything for yourself. For some cheap practice, see if you can hang out in a local shop or buy some bulk silver coins, nickels, and wheats in bags... you probably won't get anything amazing to cherrypick, but you'll be able to hone your skills. Don't buy ANYTHING that you are not comfortable with grade-wise. If the holder says EF-40 and it LOOKS to you like an F-12, then don't feel bad about shying away from it... chances are you could be closer to right than you think. As for the certified coins that "look better than the grade printed", check to see if you can learn WHEN it was graded. The grading system has made a big shift into what is known as "market grading" which is a small amount looser in nature than "technical grading" and introduces factors such as eye appeal and luster.

 

Don't ler the shysters in the industry drive you away. Find a dealer (or a few dealers) you are comfortable with that offer you not only quality coins, but service and knowledge as well and don't worry about getting ripped off... if you have the right teacher(s), you'll learn quickly how to spot a coin that's being trumped up more than it should be.

 

Finally, when you're ready to make the investment, join the ANA and either buy the correspondence classes and work through them or enroll in the classes offered at the ANA campus in Colorado Springs. It's well worth the money.

[Hoot]

1. Lots of deceptive claims and misrepresentations on web sites, auctions, e-bay. Its hard to know who is an honest seller and who you can trust. I guess life is like that in general.

 

It's true that there is a fair bit of misrepresentation out there, but there are ways to safeguard yourself. When you buy in such auctions, then make sure the seller has a solid return policy and also a good reputation. This you can discern with eBay's feedback and you can also ask forum members if they have had any dealings with a seller to see if they are solid. As for the big auction houses, e.g., Heritage, B&M, Stacks, etc., you will usually get what they describe but realize that they will always cast their items in a positive light. And never be afraid to make contact with a seller and ask specific questions regarding the item of purchase, return policies, etc.

 

2. Don't buy "sight unseen".

 

Remember, buying over the internet with pictures available is "sight unseen". You will likely buy sight unseen for a few purchases, particularly slabbed items. Stick with reputable sellers, the series you know, NGC, PCGS, and ANACS coins (unless you are willing to take a significant risk and you KNOW you can get your money back), and never hesitate to send a coin back if you don't like it. Raw coins sight unseen should only be bought if you are buying with a solid return policy from a reputable dealer, and you are an expert with the series.

 

3. Beware of "toned coins".

 

Yes, but become an expert in the series you are collecting so that you can spot most AT coins. This gets very tricky, but most experts in their series can spot a particular type of toning in the flash of an eye, by this I mean album toning (and what kind of album), tissue toning, tab toning, toning from high sulfur cardboard, etc. Many types of AT are unnatually vibrant and lay over the surface of the coin rather than being part of the surface. You will gain skills with this the longer you spend around the series that interest you.

 

4. The "grading game" is something to be wary of... and ...comment about their true grade (for example NGC MS-62 but really should be 63 or 64).

 

True, and some experts even make a living at spotting undergraded coins in holders. But for the most part, simply look at the relative liquidity of coins graded by the major grading services and ask yourself if the price you are paying is something close to what you can get out of the coin if you were to sell it. If your coin is PQ for the grade, then you'll probably do well when it's time to sell it. I'm not saying that you'll make a profit, just that you won't lose your tail. However, before you pay PQ money for a coin, then be determined to make that determination yourself. There is WAY too much hype in the coin business, and you simply have to take the hype with a grain of salt, unless it's coming from a trusted source. For example, there are a number of folks on this board that I'd take their word when speaking of PQ coins straight off the bat: EVP, gmarguli, bigD5, carlwohlforth, braddick, sunnywood, keithdagen, TomB, michael, and the list goes on... there are many and I did not mean to leave any names off. So, despite what the hype may be, honesty still abounds, just keep in touch, and you'll find it.

 

By the way, what Dermott said was excellent advice.

 

Take care, Hoot

[paigow_johnny]

Coast to Coast, just for the record

 

Welcome to the not so popular club of "Coast to Coast alumni"

[jrh-migration]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions. I'm sure I'll make mistakes along the way, but these boards (and those that contribute to them) have already saved me from any number of blunders already. I'll probably have very little to contribute for a long time, but I'll continue to monitor and learn. Thanks.

[LEAKYCOIN]

Jrh,

What about error coins? It is hard to fake them compared to toned coins.

 

KINGKOIN KING OF KOINS

 

[jrh-migration]

Actually, I have one or two simple error coins (that I got years ago and kept), but it seems that many error coins have such subtle errors that (as a novice) I can't fully appreciate. Maybe someday I'll know enough to collect such things.

 

Years ago (about 1974) in Memphis Tennessee (at Union Planters Bank downtown, I think) there was a fantastic display of error coins (I think it was the bank president's private collection put together over 50 years). It was called "The Money Museum". Does anyone know if it is still there ?

[LEAKYCOIN]

With ebay all you have to do is read and learn. There are some neat web sites also.

 

KINGKOIN KING OF KOINS

 

[jrh-migration]

My education continues !!!

 

I just won two lincoln cents on e-bay. They were listed with photos, but only of the obverse. I assumed the reverse would be comparable and it seemed OK. When I got the coins in the mail, one was OK, but the second had a large very dark carbon spot on the reverse (over 1 mm. in diameter).

 

It wasn't a lot of money and sending it back wasn't worth the hassle (it was correctly graded and encapsulated by NGC). But now I understand why there were no photos of the reverse.

 

I've made a solumn vow (to myself) never to bid on an online auction without seeing GOOD photos or scans of both sides of a coin. It's amazing how high quality pieces usually have good photos and scans, while problem pieces have less than ideal images and verbal "excuses" about the quality of the images.

 

My education continues !!!