Bearded Goddess -- Opinions?

[gedis3]

Ok, first time poster here, so don't shoot me -- I bring tidings of a find!

 

Back Story:

 

Many many years ago, my great great grandfather was a merchant marine, traveling the world -- picking up coins in various ports around the world and giving them to his son when he returned as momentos, they were kept in an old cloth bag with silk lining. Somewhere along the way, a few Capped Halves made it into the bag. Eventually the bag was handed down to my Mother, and then to me when she died in 1977.

 

Other than a passing fancy with Mercury Dimes about 15 years ago after I found a moderately rare one while metal detecting, I have never been a serious coin collector, so I didn't put much interest into to the coins I have until recently. I pulled out the old bag of my great great grandfather's coins and spread them out on the dining room table, then cracked open a fresh edition of the Red Book to see what was what and perhaps sell off some of the ones that don't interest me and upgrade my Merc collection. Most are pretty common world and US coins from the early 1800's to the early 1900's. But one really caught my eye...

 

 

Yes, I know what it is -- I stayed up until 2am last night digging up info on the "Bearded Goddess" and it's variants once I figured out what I had in my hands -- and I have a so-so idea about what grade it is, but I thought I would toss it up here and see what ya'll think...

 

Sorry if the pictures aren't so great, I don't have much experience photographing coins. I still have not put it in a flip, so I might try to take a few more and see if they come out better, but the above ones should get the conversation started.

 

Yes, it does have some light scratches across her face, she flailed around in a bag with about 50 other coins for the past 150 years or so. (Try not to cringe too badly, people...) But otherwise is in pretty good shape and nicely toned.

 

I look forward to reading your opinions and answering any questions you might have about the coin.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

G.

[TomB]

That bag is an amazing historical find and you should catalog what the contents are and, to the best of your ability, when the coinage was obtained. Many of us would be interested to know the information.

 

The CBH you have is indeed known as the Bearded Goddess, but the images of your coin make it appear to be a die state where the beard is not fully formed. Therefore, it might be noted as the O.111b, which is the Bearded Goddess, or the O.111a, which is an earlier die state that generally does not command the same stiff premium.

 

The coin itself is quite a high grade circulated piece and I would grade it as an EF40 or thereabouts. It is truly too bad about the surface marks that are primarily found on the obverse.

[MBA101]

Makes me wonder if this one is in the actual Overton pop estimates. Nice coin even with the scratches. It does appear to be an O-111b variety because it looks like the lump above the breast has fully formed.

 

Be more than interested to hear about all of the other US coins in that bag...

[stman]

I see a bit of the break going through the eye, and a little up to the curl. I also see some of the break across the drapery. Does the break go down to the left of the "1" in the date? So far what I see I would probably call it a late-state 111a.

Possibly early 111B. I would also be curious if in person if the "Beard" is indeed complete and just not showing all of it in the image. I have one that my scan shows it broken, but in real life it's all there, just very thin in the middle.

[MikeKing]

wow! get it graded by NGC. Make sure you don't allow it to get any more scratches on the surface.

[gedis3]

Thanks for all the input!

 

Most of the rest of the bag is pretty common stuff, and pretty worn out, as it seems like most of it was taken out of circulation, not a collection. There are 3 more CBH's in the pile, an 1817, an 1818/7 and an 1819. 2 1845 Seated Halves and an 1843 Seated Half. 1839 Seated Dime with a hole through the top -- that kinda stuff. Alas, no early US copper. Farily sizeable amount of English coinage from about the same time period, and some other "world" pieces that I have not ID'd yet.

 

The "Beard" is indeed fully formed from the chin to the shoulder, very thin in the middle, but complete. Just didn't pick up all that well in my first attempt at pics... couldn't get the scratches visible and the entire beard visible at the same time. I'll give it another shot after my guests clear out from the super bowl party.

 

The scratches are very shallow, and only show up when the light hits them just right, I have a few pics from my first attempt where the scratches are barely visible, but I wanted to show the coin in it's worst light to get realistic grading estimates from you CBH fanatics out there.

 

It is being handled with EXTREME care now that I know what it is -- no worries about my tossing it back in the bag loose, ok? I will have it back in a flip by tomorrow, and I'm going to contact a local dealer about possibly having it slabbed by NGC.

 

Thanks again for the responses, I'll keep watching the thread.

 

G.

[MBA101]

Cool. That bearded would fetch 5-8K easily whether it is slabbed or not. Feel free to post pics of the other busties and seateds. We pics of old original coins on this site!!!

[Mozin]

If those scratches are not very deep, as you say, you might consider placing the coin in a high sulphur paper for a few years. Place the coin envelope along side some paper match books, and let it sit. Take the Lady out every once in awhile just to admire the toning improvement.

 

A little extra toning might allow NGC rather than NCI to grade the coin, which will make your coin more saleable, at a better price. Besides, encapsulation will protect the coin.

[gedis3]

Here's a side-on shot that better shows the "beard".

 

 

 

Thanks again for the responses!

 

G.

[James_OldeTowne]

First of all, Welcome to our friendly little neighborhood!

 

Congratulations on a FANTASTIC find! It is a Bearded Goddess, and in the high VF range for details. The images are blurry, but I venture to guess this coin is worth in the thousands of dollars.

 

Treat it well!

[gedis3]

Ok, finally got the macro settings and tripod adjusted to get some hopefully clearer pics... pretty large, hope they don't give your PC a hernia...

 

 

 

G.

[CoinAddict]

Very nice find. So when are you going to share pics of the other CBHs?

[MBA101]

Really cool!

[gedis3]

I'll put pics of the other CBHs up this afternoon.

 

The 1817 and 1818/7 are in about the same or maybe a little better condition as this one. The 1819 is well-worn with a very old, very deep X carved in Liberty's forehead.

 

G

[coinman1794]

A wonderful find! Sharply struck with nice patination. The details are solid XF40, but I can see a 35 if the obverse scrapes are too severe.

[Hoot]

Terrific coin, and with it's history in your family, it has a provenance that stretches back to years not long after its mintage. Be sure that if you pass the coin along, the provenance and story go with it!

 

Don't be surprised if NGC BB's the coin for the scratches. It's not uncommon for them to do that, but with such a piece, if encapsulated, may be netted down in grade. Just the game.

 

Hoot

[gedis3]

Thanks once again for the kind comments, everyone.

 

As promised to the CBH fans out there, Pics of the other 3 CBH's from the bag, feel free to comment on condition, variety or value if you desire:

 

#1 -- 1817

 

 

 

#2 -- 1818/7

 

 

 

#3 -- 1819

 

 

 

All 4 Together ---

 

[MBA101]

The 1817 is an O-112 and would probably be a nice VF-20

 

The 1818/7 is the tough O-103 and may be a VF-35/XF 40

 

Great coins!

[Mozin]

This 1807 shows a continuous crack below the chin, called the "beard" . A significant die lump is showing at the bottom of the crack. The crack extends upwards at least into the headband, perhaps even into the cap above the headband.

 

In my opinion, this specimen is the b-DS, because of the lump at the bottom of the crack, and how far the crack extends upwards, at least into the headband. The crack does not need to extend into the cap for it to be the LDS, that would be an added bonus.

 

The most valuable DS in this O-111 marriage is actually the EDS, which is R6. This DS brings a large premium over the "Bearded Goddess" die states, but only when it is sold to a serious Overton Bust Collector.

 

Many collectors only require the break to be complete from chin down to call it the "Bearded Goddess". Most collectors would rather own the later die states, the later the better. Both of the later DS are considered R5, no mater what the Parsley 4th edition says. Because of demand, the prices realized for the "Goddess" are pretty steep, when compared with the much rarer EDS. Let's face it, most of us would like to own the "Goddess" with the heaviest beard brake, and that is what truly determines the value of the coin.

 

This new found coin looks to have VF35 detail, and if NGC would grade it as such, should be worth a couple thousand dollars. If the scratches are cause for body bag at NGC, this coin would still be worth around $1500. JMHO

 

Congratulations on your finding a true 1807 "Bearded Goddess".

[gedis3]

I appreciate all the responses and opinions that I have gotten so far, thanks again to everyone that has posted on this thread.

 

I will be taking the 1807 "Bearded Goddess" around to a few local coin dealers today so I can have it evaluated in-person to see if they think it will be body bagged by the abrasions if sent into NGC.

 

I appreciate the information that everyone here has given me, and yes, digital photography has helped immensely to get coins evaluated over the internet -- but as most of you know, there is no substitute for holding a coin in your hand to get a real "feel" for it. I have a 4 megapixel camera -- not sure how many megapixels my eye ball has, but I'm pretty sure it's more...

 

There is also a local auction house here in Central S.C. that I frequent that is holding a sale tonight, and usually a few coin people show up that I have chatted up over the years -- so we'll have a little "show and tell" and see what they think of her.

 

I'll post on this thread later today and let everyone know how things went.

 

G.

[gedis3]

Just got back from showing the coin to a couple of local dealers.

 

Independently both said "strong XF" as far as condition, and that the scratches, while slightly distracting under magnification, don't really seem to hurt the coin all that much overall, but still that the NGC "might" knock it down a grade if sent in for slabbing. Neither one thought the problems were bad enough to induce the dreaded body bag.

 

That's all so far, will be getting a third and possibly fourth opinion tonight.

 

G.

[Mozin]

Congratulation on getting this coin into a NGC VF35 holder, just as I saw it earlier in this thread.

[gedis3]

Thanks Mozin!

 

I'm still a bit shocked that it made it into an NGC Holder after all is said and done, but as others have said, it is a 200 year old coin -- you can expect it would pick up a few scratches along the way. I saw a PCGS VF35 Bearded Goddess with a pretty significant scratch on it the other day, so maybe the TPGs are starting to cut these older coins a little slack.

 

...and for those just finding this, the original thread posted the day that I found the Bearded Goddess and discovered what it was -- a correction to the original post:

 

I also have a bag of coins that I inherited, most of them world coins, and I combined both it and the box full of world coins from the estate auction where I found the Bearded Goddess, hence the confusion about where it came from.

 

After I dug deeper into the box I found a note where I had written down the US coins found in the box from the estate sale, and it listed an 1807 Half Dollar -- and since I only have one of those, the Goddess, I have determined that it came from the box, not the bag. I think the only US coins in the silk bag were a holed bust dime, a few shield nickels, and a very worn large cent, all of the other US coins in the combined box are on my inventory note from the auction. At the time that I obtained all of these, my only interest in coins (and still my primary interest) was Mercury Dimes and I didn't even give these a second look until this past February -- 14 years or so after they were put away.

 

I still don't know what most of the world coins are, most appear to be English and German -- I need to snag a world coins book and try to ID them, might still be something special in there, but I think I have used up my luck at this point -- so I don't hold out much hope.