Eagle Eye Photo Seal

[jrh-migration]

I'm a new (very novice) collector and what little I know is from recent reading and browsing the internet. Yesterday I came across the term "eagle eye photo seal" and went to the web site to read about it. It seemed to make sense and Mr. Snow seems to be regarded as a recognized expert (perhaps THE expert ??) in Indian cents.

 

My questions are:

1. Is this a good thing as it seems?

 

2. Are there other experts in nickels, dimes, gold, etc. that do the same thing?

 

3. If this is carried to its next logical (or illogical) step will other Indian cent experts evaluate the graded coins and will there someday then develop yet another tier of "graders grading graders" ... "certifiers certifying certifiers", etc.?

 

4. Is there so much variation in third party graded coins that another level of protection is recommended for people like me who want to get into the hobby but are not yet knowlegable enough to grade coins accurately?

 

5. What will become of the apparent protection should Mr. Snow retire or decide to no longer participate in the business?

 

Please understand, I do not mean to create any controversy and don't want those "for" or "against" this concept to line up in any dispute. I don't even know Mr. Snow (however, I've e-mailed him about the possible purchase of some coins - I'll hear back soon I hope - the coins on his web site are beautiful). It's just that I'm trying to learn the lingo, learn about grading, learn about auctions, etc.

 

I'm not in this for profit, investment, or anything like that. I just like to look at the coins and the third party grading would seem to make it possible for the novice (like me) to get into it a little more safely. Any insight would be appreciated.

 

And oh yes, just who is Lucy Bop and exactly where is Hep Cat City???

[Klectorkid]

 

My questions are:

1. Is this a good thing as it seems?

Yes pretty much

2. Are there other experts in nickels, dimes, gold, etc. that do the same thing?

not that I know of.

3. If this is carried to its next logical (or illogical) step will other Indian cent experts evaluate the graded coins and will there someday then develop yet another tier of "graders grading graders" ... "certifiers certifying certifiers", etc.?

Since Rick Snow is the only major person doing this I doubt this would happen anytime soon.

4. Is there so much variation in third party graded coins that another level of protection is recommended for people like me who want to get into the hobby but are not yet knowlegable enough to grade coins accurately?

I dont think that is what is ment by the eagle eye coins photoseal. I think Rick is really just telling people that the coin has great eye apeal, Because 3rd party graders dont designate this (although NGC has a star designation for it but nothing compairs to a expert in the series telling you the coin is great.) It helps reasure people. But I think its safe to say that you would probably be very happy with just about any of the eagle eye coin.

5. What will become of the apparent protection should Mr. Snow retire or decide to no longer participate in the business?I guess it would stop he is the master of IHC's for the most part so if anyone else took over I wouldnt be as confident in their ability to differentiat the good from the bad.

 

And oh yes, just who is Lucy Bop and exactly where is Hep Cat City???

Well of Course Lucy Bop is the Smoothest Kitty around the NGC boards (and PCGS for that matter) and about hep cat city have a few margaritas and it will be much clearer to you.

 

[jrh-migration]

Thanks for the response. I appreciate the information.

 

With regard to question #4 I went back to Rick Snow's web site since I had gathered from it that he was dealing more with the "grade" than "eye appeal". He (Snow) says ..."Our records prove that over 1/2 of the Flying Eagle and Indian Cents in slabs today are overgraded or just plain ugly". He goes on to say ..."These Photo Seals attest that we (Rick Snow and Brian Wagner) have examined the coin and agree with the grading services opinion. It's a second opinion that carries extra benefit, because they can then be bought and sold at our market price".

 

While he (Snow) does refer to "ugly coins", it seems the grading services are more concerned with the grade (as opposed to eye appeal) even though I realize there is a "star" designation for some particularly appealing graded coins (another fact I've picked up browsing the internet that I hadn't previously known). So, when he (Snow) says the purpose is to agree with the grading service it would be the grade primarily and not the eye appeal (perhaps it's both and I'm trying to draw too fine a line). Anyway, thanks for the quick response and the helpful information.

[TomB]

Rick is a good guy, quite knowledgeable and very safe to do business with. I would highly recommend you trying his inventory out for eye appeal.

[jrh-migration]

Yes, I have no doubt he is a good guy (and extremely knowledgable) and as I mentioned above I've already e-mailed him about a possible purchase. I hope to hear from him soon. Perhaps someday I'll meet him at a show and be able to ask some questions personally.

[CarlWohlforth]

I am very happy with my latest purchase. I bought it from Eagle Eye coins. It has a photo seal.

 

Flyer Obverse

Reverse

[jrh-migration]

Beautiful coin. Thanks for the photos.

[Hoot]

It does sound like, from Rick's web page, he is concerned with grade as much as eye appeal. Eye appeal can be somewhat detached from grade but it does play a factor, especially with coins that border one grade and another, e.g. a MS65.8 might get an MS66 grade if it has terrific eye appeal.

 

Anyhow, Rick's opinion carries with it a widespread reputation. He is widely regarded highly in his specialty. His "photo seal" is simply a "seal of approval" and still does not replace an individual's ability to grade and judge eye appeal for themselves.

 

jrh - Welcome to the forms. As for collecting, take your time, study your interests intensely, look at as many coins as you can, go to shows, buy catalogs and books, and hook up with a dealer who stands 100% behind his/her coins in the event that you submit them to a third party grading company. Also, realize that your interests may evolve and change quickly when entering into the sector of the hobby that you have.

 

Hoot

[shylock]

I agree with Hoot that the Photoseal is a confirmation of the technical grade and shouldn't be confused with the NGC star for eye appeal. Inconsistent grading and color designation of Indian cents over the years makes this series a good candidate for a second opinion, and PS coins are a great starting point for a new collector. I believe it was started by him and his ex partner Brian Wagner as a means to safely buy back, sight unseen, coins they'd already evaluated. But keep in mind that not all of Rick's inventory are "{PS}", only the ones selling at his "Pink Sheet" prices.

 

From a retail standpoint, there are at least a couple of other dealers who specialize in the series who sell only quality material and whose inventory can be trusted just as much. From a numismatic standpoint, Rick's taken the FE & IH series to a new level with his research and especially his variety attribution.

[IrishMike]

This has been a good marketing technique for Rick as his opinion is well respected in the Indian Cent community of collectors. These coins will usually bring a premium on Ebay and from other serious collectors. Shylock certainly knows him better than I do, as I met and spent sometime with both of them at the FUN show. He is the guy I would go to ask, what do you really think of this cent?

 

The more time you spend in the hobby the more you will come to recognize the people in the know. Just remember buy what appeals to you, i.e album cents appeal to me more then expensive slabbed coins.

[291fifth]

The Eagle Eye Photo Seal program clearly adds to the desirability of the coins that have it. The problem with the program is actually related to his buy back guarantee. In a phone conversation with Rick several months ago he stated that he presently only gives the Photo Seal to coins in PCGS or NGC slabs. He at one time gave them to coins in ICG slabs but apparently no longer does. Because he has a buy back provision he only wants coins in easily "marketable" holders. This means that coins that are correctly graded but are not in PCGS or NGC holders will not be reviewed and can't receive the Photo Seal.