Does slab presentation contribute to market softness for widgets?

[Zoins]

I've been hearing of a softening/soft market for widgets and that the cost of the plastic drives up prices for widgets to the point that they are not attractive. Today I started wondering if the slabbing/widgetization also softens the market for the coins due to the slab presentation itself.

 

With albums and raw coins, you simply put the coin in the album and can enjoy all the coins together. It seems popular to crack coins out of slabs to fill the Dansco 7070 Type Set album but I'm wondering if people are as likely to crack slabs out to fill albums for other series. For a series comprised of many widgets I imagine it would be a lot more enjoyable to view the series in an album rather than in slabs, but I wonder how many people would take the time/effort to crack slabs for that. Does having an entire series become widgetized lessen interest in collecting that series overall due to presentation in addition to price?

[James_OldeTowne]

I've been hearing of a softening/soft market for widgets and that the cost of the plastic drives up prices for widgets to the point that they are not attractive. Today I started wondering if the slabbing/widgetization also softens the market for the coins due to the slab presentation itself.

 

With albums and raw coins, you simply put the coin in the album and can enjoy all the coins together. It seems popular to crack coins out of slabs to fill the Dansco 7070 Type Set album but I'm wondering if people are as likely to crack slabs out to fill albums for other series. For a series comprised of many widgets I imagine it would be a lot more enjoyable to view the series in an album rather than in slabs, but I wonder how many people would take the time/effort to crack slabs for that. Does having an entire series become widgetized lessen interest in collecting that series overall due to presentation in addition to price?

There is no question whatsoever in my mind that your insight is 100% accurate.

 

Take my Washington quarter collection, for example. Except for perhaps a couple of examples, none of my coins grades below MS-65, and probably about half are MS-66. I cracked many of these coins out of slabs for placement in my Dansco album. To me, it is certainly a gorgeous collection, if I may say so myself, and it never fails to impress anyone that I show it to. How often do you see a 1932-D in MS-63, a 1937-S in MS-66, and all the rest of the coins in the 1930s in MS-65 or better on a single page of an album? In this format, you may view 24 coins all at once on a single page, both obverse and reverse, and it is easy to appreciate the appearance of each coin within the context of the others surrounding it. I am extremely pleased with my Washingtons in this format.

 

Without a doubt, a huge part of what makes this kind of collection so attractive is the presentation. There are nearly 200 coins in the set, and they ALL fit into one single album just a bit larger than a normal hardback novel. I can carry it to any coin show when I have the cash to buy a new addition, or to any coin club meeting when I'd like to participate in show'n'tell.

 

Now, if these coins were in slabs, can you imagine the ungainly size, and the clumsy presentation of the coins? I would have to lug around about ten creaky, ugly plastic-smelling boxes, and to look at the coins, you would have to pull them out one at a time, ooh and aah over each separate from the others, and to me, you just can't get the appreciation of the impact provided by the collection as a comprehensive whole. You just get it in bits and pieces, and each coin starts to "run into" the next, like a run-on sentence. Thus, the concept of "widgets" takes over.

 

I have absolutely no qualms about collecting some things this way. My Kennedy halves are pretty spectacular, and impressive presented in a single album. Same for my Standing Liberty quarters, and even my Barber half-dollars in G/VG! If these sets were in slabs, I'd have to dedicate a couple of book cases, and then, I'd just be showing off plastic boxes that the slabs are hidden inside of!

 

No, without a doubt, for these sets, an album is unquestionably the way to go.

 

There are situations where what I've outlined above doesn't apply, but happily, those are usually when the coins are not widgets, anyhow. I'm thinking, for example, of type sets, or other presentations where there are only a handful of coins. Then, the slabs can be laid out side by side and presented attractively, and I don't have a problem with that. Indeed, I have a few sets of that nature myself! But when it comes to collecting a whole series of coins - a series typically considered "widgets" - then no question, it's albums for me.

 

Take a look at my post concerning my Morgan dollar collection (which is also housed in three albums) to get a good feel of what an album presentation is like.

 

Fantastic topic, and I do hope others will chime in their opinions, both for and against.

[Bruceswar]

James one day I would like to see this Washington Set. I have mine in capitol plastics which make for a great display as well if you ask me.

[cpm9ball]

I'll have to agree that there are many instances where the coins, sans the slabs, are more beautiful to behold. To me, the perfect example of this is the '98-O DMPL that I bought from you, James. It is a gorgeous coin in the raw, and I don't feel that I was risking anything by cracking it open. The value will always be there, regardless of the grade, because it is just that pretty.

 

My Morgan collection of several hundred is comprised of about 1/3 that are in slabs. In some cases, however, I would be loathe to crack them out of a 65 or 66 holder when they are blast white with no special eye appeal other than a super clean cheek (for example.) On a "bad day", some of those 65's could become 64's and some of the 66's could become 65's in front of the wrong grader. So, there are some instances where I would prefer not to risk what I already have.

 

I guess if I were rolling in dough, I could say, "Who cares!" and crack all of them, but that simply isn't the case.

 

Chris

[michael]

that is why i like to collect coins that are not only historical but scarce.............. TRULY SCARCE

 

basically stand alone coins with many "stories to speak" and historical perspective.

 

but most importantly ..........coins that have a long collecting history and some meaning to me, coins that excite me and make some sort of connection in my psychie ............... coins i can get excited about

 

something i can research and learn about through much historical information seen and yet unseen, coins that still have a story to tell something yet to be discovered, a coin with many questions answered but some unanswered too!!

 

and a coin i can look back on, in some distant long past dusty auction catalogue and/or price list and/or written contemporary account and/or older collector manual written by a passionate numismatist that makes me think and add to this history and love of the past which grounds us in the present and looking towards the future

 

balance

 

but again an important point for me is quality not quantity a coin that is not only well balanced but truly scarce with historical significance, a coin that i have to look for and find

 

something that is a passion to collect

 

and again

 

most importantly it excites only you no one else. YOURSELF

YOU ENJOY COLLECTING THE COIN

[michael]

a kind thoughtfull suggestion to think about

 

before you buy any SLABBED coin ask yourself this question

 

if i was to buy this coin and then break it out of its current slab

 

is the demand of this raw coin and what can sell it for right now in its raw unslabbed state AT LEAST THE same as when it was slabbed?

 

IF NOT THEN LET THE BUYER BEWARE

 

if you gots to be nervous about buying a coin and being afraid of breaking the coin out of its slab ... then you got an expensive questionable piece of plastic therein

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a coin stands on its own merits

[MikeKing]

an insightful thread

[EZ_E]

a kind thoughtfull suggestion to think about

 

before you buy any SLABBED coin ask yourself this question

 

if i was to buy this coin and then break it out of its current slab

 

is the demand of this raw coin and what can sell it for right now in its raw unslabbed state AT LEAST THE same as when it was slabbed?

 

IF NOT THEN LET THE BUYER BEWARE

 

if you gots to be nervous about buying a coin and being afraid of breaking the coin out of its slab ... then you got an expensive questionable piece of plastic therein

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a coin stands on its own merits

 

This is very true but not always accurate given the inconsistencies of the grading services.

 

As many of you know, I used to crack my type coins for my Dansco album but I have no deviated from this practice because of the risks involved. I agree that the presentation is much better in an album but I don't feel that it is worth the risks.

 

Examples:

 

I had my NGC PR65 1892 Barber Half regraded by PCGS and it came back PR64 Cameo. It is nice to have it designated cameo but the difference in price between the two grades is really quite a big jump. The coin is solid and beautiful. I would think that it would be 65 all day long but this is not always the case.

 

I have an 1898 IHC formally graded PR66 RB by NGC. It developed a spittle mark on it by the eye so I sent it to Hoot to see if he could fix it. He first rinsed it in hot water and.....no more color! It turned a brassy color. So a $700 coin was reduced to $200 just like that!

 

I am by no means a rookie collector but there still are pitfalls along the way. I still love the display advantages of albums but the risks are not only downgrading but also spittle, slider marks, fingerprints and toning.

 

So, I will still collect some coins in albums but when larger monetary figures come into play, I will leave the coin slabbed!

[James_OldeTowne]

I had my NGC PR65 1892 Barber Half regraded by PCGS and it came back PR64 Cameo. It is nice to have it designated cameo but the difference in price between the two grades is really quite a big jump.

This surprises me. I would have thought a PR-64 CAM would be at least equal in value to a PR-65 .

 

I have an 1898 IHC formally graded PR66 RB by NGC. It developed a spittle mark on it by the eye so I sent it to Hoot to see if he could fix it. He first rinsed it in hot water and.....no more color! It turned a brassy color. So a $700 coin was reduced to $200 just like that!

Victor, I would be interested in seeing this coin in-hand. Can that be arranged? For that matter, is it for sale?

[EZ_E]

Cameos currently don't bring as much of a premium as they should. I'd say that in the PCGS PR64 cam slab it would fetch maybe $1850. The PR65 slab can bring up to $3K.

 

The IHC is in another's hands now. I'll keep you posted in the future about the coin.

[World Colonial]

Cameos in a series such as this one do appear undervalued relative to non-cameo, especially coppoers.