The Little Rock High Commemorative - ugliest coin of the century thus far?

[gunmoney-migration]

I think its a good design. And a clever way to tell the story as any good Comm coins should, just give you enough detail to ask what else happened or what is the rest of the story.

[Zoins]

I think its a good design. And a clever way to tell the story as any good Comm coins should, just give you enough detail to ask what else happened or what is the rest of the story.

The problem is that it's likely many people won't ask what happened but instead will just think it's stupid. However, it may be the most the Mint can do given the political situation.

 

I didn't realize there were so many soldiers. IMO, to (partially) show 9 students but only 1 soldier does a disservice to history. It would be nicer to show the correct number of soldiers. Since there are 9 stars above the feet image, there could also be one star for each soldier underneath.

[shirohniichan]

What could the 9 stars be representative of in history?

It represents the 9 students who helped break the color barrier at Little Rock High School.

 

If you count them, it looks like there are 9 pairs of feet on the sidewalk.

Look more carefully... you will find TEN pairs of feet. The tenth pair belongs to a National Guardsman who escorted the students to the building.

 

Scott

 

Oh, oh! Let me guess-- the pair of feet in Army boots belong to the soldier, right?

 

I think this design is awesome. I can almost smell the feet they are so lifelike. I'll be purchasing at least 100 examples of this coin as it's so ugly that it's sure to be one of the lowest mintage commems ever minted.

 

The ugliness of this commem makes the Eunice Shriver/Christopher Columbus commem look stunningly beautiful.

 

I'll only buy the coin if it comes in weird packaging, like an old shoe.

[jtryka]

It's nice to tell the story/history in a commem, but before you get too worked up about it, just remember that 99.9% of the US population will never set eyes on one of these coins.

[Zoins]

It's nice to tell the story/history in a commem, but before you get too worked up about it, just remember that 99.9% of the US population will never set eyes on one of these coins.

Who's getting worked up? I'm just stating my opinion of the design like many others. I don't see anyone getting worked up over this, esp compared to other threads.

 

And the possibility that only a few people will see it isn't a good reason to do a bad job.

[Zoins]

Wow. I finally checked the Wikipedia Little Rock Central HS page:

LRCHS was the focal point of the Little Rock Integration Crisis of 1957. Nine black students, known as the Little Rock Nine, were denied entrance to the school in defiance of the 1954 U.S. Supreme Court ruling ordering integration of public schools. This provoked a showdown between the Governor Orval Faubus and President Dwight D. Eisenhower that gained international attention.

 

On the morning of September 23, 1957, the nine black high school students faced an angry mob of over 1,000 whites protesting integration in front of Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas. As the students were escorted inside by the Little Rock police, violence escalated and they were removed from the school. The next day, President Dwight D. Eisenhower ordered 1,200 members of the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division from Fort Campbell to escort the nine students into the school. As Melba Pattillo Beals, one of the nine students, remembered, and quoted in her book, "After three full days inside Central [High School], I know that integration is a much bigger word than I thought."

I had no idea that there was a 1,000+ person mob and that the soldiers numbered 1,200. It might be interesting to commission a medal showing the school, mob, 9 students and lots of soldiers.

[jom]

Here it is. A rectangle with a bunch of feet. The reverse is okay, but the obverse is the ugliest piece of scat I've seen this century.

 

 

I dunno....Eunice Shriver is pretty butt-ugly.

 

jom

[Zoins]

Here it is. A rectangle with a bunch of feet. The reverse is okay, but the obverse is the ugliest piece of scat I've seen this century.

I dunno....Eunice Shriver is pretty butt-ugly.

 

jom

Isn't that one from last century

[pendragon1998]

I'll only buy the coin if it comes in weird packaging, like an old shoe.

 

I don't know why, but that cracked me up.

[WoodenJefferson]

Here it is. A rectangle with a bunch of feet. The reverse is okay, but the obverse is the ugliest piece of scat I've seen this century.

 

 

I dunno....Eunice Shriver is pretty butt-ugly.

 

jom

 

 

Eunice Kennedy Shriver......Maria Owings (Shriver) Schwarzenegger

 

July 10, 1921..........................................Nov. 6, 1955

 

 

 

Maria Shriver was the second child and only daughter of the politician Sargent Shriver and his wife Eunice Kennedy Shriver, the sister of President Kennedy.

 

Worthy of mention and out of all due respect, Eunice did not always look like the obverse of the commemorative coin,(YIKES) In her younger days, she was a rather attractive woman. Age creeps into all of us, you young'ins just wait and see!

[shoebox911-migration]

I think its a good design. And a clever way to tell the story as any good Comm coins should, just give you enough detail to ask what else happened or what is the rest of the story.

 

I agree. It's not the most aesthetically pleasing design, but by NOT showing the entire figures, the partial image forces the viewer to use his or her imagination to fill in the details. For example, I can interpret the meaning of the design on several levels:

 

1) Literally, it depicts the nine black students (known as the Little Rock Nine) being escorted into Little Rock Central High School under armed escort on that fateful day back in 1957.

 

2) However, by scratching the surface a little, one might see a symbolic representation of ALL children of color who, during that time period, underwent similar hardships and disgrace while trying to achieve a better education in a school system that could openly and freely discriminate against them.

 

3) Finally, if one considers the design to be a kind of visual metaphor, I would pose this question to all white folks in the land that professes to be the place where "all men are created equal": How would YOU feel if one of those nine children was YOUR white child walking with his or her white friends and the armed soldier escorting the group was black?

 

Again, I like the design. It's refreshing to have an image on a coin that isn't so darn literal. Personally, I'm tired of being spoon-fed the same old iconic symbols of the past: presidents, statues, eagles, wars, etc., etc.

 

You can sign me...

 

shoebox911

[Zoins]

I wouldn't mind the President on this one due to his personal involvement with the situation. I think having overlapping busts of Governor Faubus and President Eisenhower would be worthwhile, like the Gettysburg commem. IMO it's significant that Eisenhower sided with SCOTUS and the black students against the mob and Faubus, especially since a previous President, Andrew Jackson, sided with certain white people against SCOTUS and the Cherokees. Of course, if the Cherokees weren't illegally removed, we probably wouldn't have Dahlonega gold.

[DC Dawg]

Worthy of mention and out of all due respect, Eunice did not always look like the obverse of the commemorative coin,(YIKES) In her younger days, she was a rather attractive woman. Age creeps into all of us, you young'ins just wait and see!

Oy... don't remind me! (as he rubs his bald head!)

 

Scott

[shoebox911-migration]

I wouldn't mind the President on this one due to his personal involvement with the situation. I think having overlapping busts of Governor Faubus and President Eisenhower would be worthwhile...

 

Why should either of them be featured on the coin? They were at adds with each other on the issue of integration. Faubus was a racist who defied the federal government's order to integrate the schools while Eisnhower did the right thing by sending federal troops down to Little Rock to enforce the law.

 

But this coin is all about the courage of conviction of the nine black students who chose to break the color barrier of an all-white school system. Think of it... how many of us, as teenagers, would be willing to walk a couple of hundred yards past hundreds of angry students and adults shouting death threats and racist remarks into a school building even while under an armed escort?

 

These nine individuals are now all in their sixties, I believe. They not only deserve to be commemorated on this coin but these true American heroes more than earned this country's highest honor, The Congressional Gold Medal which they received ten years ago.

 

shoebox911

[Zoins]

I wouldn't mind the President on this one due to his personal involvement with the situation. I think having overlapping busts of Governor Faubus and President Eisenhower would be worthwhile...

 

Why should either of them be featured on the coin? They were at adds with each other on the issue of integration. Faubus was a racist who defied the federal government's order to integrate the schools while Eisnhower did the right thing by sending federal troops down to Little Rock to enforce the law.

 

But this coin is all about the courage of conviction of the nine black students who chose to break the color barrier of an all-white school system. Think of it... how many of us, as teenagers, would be willing to walk a couple of hundred yards past hundreds of angry students and adults shouting death threats and racist remarks into a school building even while under an armed escort?

 

These nine individuals are now all in their sixties, I believe. They not only deserve to be commemorated on this coin but these true American heroes more than earned this country's highest honor, The Congressional Gold Medal which they received ten years ago.

 

shoebox911

I agree Faubus probably wouldn't appear on any US government issue coin due to politics, however many of the Founding Fathers were slave owners and chose not to free the blacks at the dawn of the US. Indeed, the Founding Fathers agreed that a black person only counted as three fifths of a white person. Some of the slave owners are even on circulating coins. Also remember that one primary reason Washington joined the American Revolution is because he wanted to preserve his claim on American Indian lands that King George III proclaimed no white man would inhabit. Perhaps you don't think what Eisenhower did is noteworthy but, given the history with the Founding Fathers and Andrew Jackson (who is on a circulating FRN), I think his actions are noteworthy. If you think Eisenhower's actions are unimportant, just look at what happened to the Cherokees after SCOTUS ruled in their favor.

 

One issue is what is the coin about? If the coin is only about the Little Rock Nine, then perhaps they should be the only ones featured, and with their faces, not just their feet. However, if the coin is about the Little Rock Crisis, desegregation and civil rights then the nine students are not the only ones that played major roles in the crisis resolution. I personally think the coin should be about an important event in American history. From that perspective, I think it makes sense to include important aspects of the event including Eisenhower and the 1200 troops. Yes, the nine students should be honored, and indeed they have been, but they are not the only ones that made that event a triumph for civil liberties. The coin as it is, discounts the magnitude of the event by not mentioning the President, 1200 troops, 1000+ person mob, SCOTUS and the conflict with the governor. As mentioned above by Conder101, the coin as it is even makes it seem like Little Rock Central HS was a leader in integration.

[shoebox911-migration]

I agree Faubus probably wouldn't appear on any US government issue coin due to politics, however many of the Founding Fathers were slave owners and chose not to free the blacks at the dawn of the US. Indeed, the Founding Fathers agreed that a black person only counted as three fifths of a white person. Some of the slave owners are even on circulating coins. Perhaps you don't think what Eisenhower did is noteworthy but, given the history with the Founding Fathers and Andrew Jackson (who is on a circulating FRN), I think his actions are noteworthy. If you think Eisenhower's actions are unimportant, just look at what happened to the Cherokees after SCOTUS ruled in their favor.

 

One issue is what is the coin about? If the coin is only about the Little Rock Nine, then perhaps they should be the only ones featured, and with their faces, not just their feet. However, if the coin is about the Little Rock Crisis, desegregation and civil rights then the nine students are not the only ones that played major roles in the crisis resolution. I personally think the coin should be about an important event in American history. From that perspective, I think it makes sense to include important aspects of the event including Eisenhower and the 1200 troops. Yes, the nine students should be honored, and indeed they have been, but they are not the only ones that made that event a triumph for civil liberties. The coin as it is, discounts the magnitude of the event by not mentioning the President, 1200 troops, 1000+ person mob, SCOTUS and the conflict with the governor. As mentioned above by Conder101, the coin as it is even makes it seem like Little Rock Central HS was a leader in integration.

 

I don't really consider Eisenhower's decision to send troops to Little Rock "noteworthy." As President of the United States, he was only doing what his job as head of the Executive Branch of our government required him to do. In this case, he was enforcing the Supreme Court's decision in the 1954 landmark Brown vs. Board of Education in Topeka case which more or less dismantled the legal basis for racial segregation in schools and other public facilities. That essentially meant that segragated schools (which almost schools were at the time) were unconstitutional. The same thing goes for the troops that were sent there. They were also only doing their job. My guess is the vast majority of them personally detested having to escort those students into the school building. Why? Because most of them would have held the same sentiments toward blacks that the rest of white America held at the time and that was an attitude of "equal but separate."

 

You ask what the coin is all about? The inscription on the obverse reads, "Desegration in Education." That about sums it up, don't you think? And if you don't think that's a big deal, try researching what all-black schools were like before 1957, especially when you compare them to the resources that all-white schools back then enjoyed.

 

You also wished this coin would have been about some "important event in American history." man, what do you call this incident that took place in Little Rock in September 1957? It only helped usher in the whole civil rights movement of the 1960's. In fact, Martin Luther King, Jr. had been quoted on more than one occasion that the Little Rock Nine event inspired him more than anything else to pursue his non-violent quest for equal justice among all Americans. That's pretty significant, don't you think?

 

shoebox911

[Zoins]

shoebox911: I think the main difference between our views is that you are discounting many aspects of the event where I am trying to be more inclusive. I never said desegregation is unimportant or insignificant so please don't imply that I did. Indeed, my view is that I think the event is more important than you do because I am thinking about it at more levels. You don't give Eisenhower any credit and have not responded at all to what Andrew Jackson did to the Cherokees in direct opposition to what "our government required him to do." Do you not care about what happened to the Cherokees at all? Do you not see how one President's response to a SCOTUS ruling is different than another's? Do you even care that it was white people on SCOTUS that made the ruling? I can't help but wonder if you simply do not want to give Eisenhower any credit because he's white. Your statement 'the rest of white America held [...] an attitude of "equal but separate" painting all whites one color makes me think you have some resentment towards white people and cannot recognize the contributions from white people towards civil liberties for their black bothers and sisters. If it were not for Eisenhower and those troops, the story of the Nine may well have ended like the story for the Cherokees. You don't seem to want to give anyone any credit for the event except for the Nine. I don't agree with that.

[pendragon1998]

 

That said, can we perhaps keep this thread centered on the point that I started it to discuss? Namely the artistic design of the coin and not the politics behind it?

[shoebox911-migration]

shoebox911: I think the main difference between our views is that you are discounting many aspects of the event where I am trying to be more inclusive. I never said desegregation is unimportant or insignificant so please don't imply that I did. Indeed, my view is that I think the event is more important than you do because I am thinking about it at more levels. You don't give Eisenhower any credit and have not responded at all to what Andrew Jackson did to the Cherokees in direct opposition to what "our government required him to do." Do you not care about what happened to the Cherokees at all? Do you not see how one President's response to a SCOTUS ruling is different than another's? Do you even care that it was white people on SCOTUS that made the ruling? I can't help but wonder if you simply do not want to give Eisenhower any credit because he's white. Your statement 'the rest of white America held [...] an attitude of "equal but separate" painting all whites one color makes me think you have some resentment towards white people and cannot recognize the contributions from white people towards civil liberties for their black bothers and sisters. If it were not for Eisenhower and those troops, the story of the Nine may well have ended like the story for the Cherokees. You don't seem to want to give anyone any credit for the event except for the Nine. I don't agree with that.

 

to zoins:

 

I am not trying to be exclusive regarding what happened that day in 1957. Keep in mind that the context of our discussion is what should be or shouldn't be featured on this commemorative coin which, by the way, has a surface area of less than 2.5 inches. That's not a lot of space, is it? Since the bill that was passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bush specifically requires that the design be "emblematic of the desegregation of the Little Rock Central High School and its contributions to civil rights in America," how would you propose to feature all these other individuals who were involved?

 

I will stand by my original point that the design is a good one because it satisfies the requirements of the congressional bill that created it in that it SYMBOLIZES the emotion and courage of the nine students who chose to beak the color barrier that day. To feature President Eisenhower and Governor Faubus in a dual portrait as you suggest would seem to me to bypass the intent of the coin and focus attention on the conflicting interests between the federal government and the state of Arkansas.

 

With all due respect to your mentioning Andrew Jackson and the events surrounding the relocation of the Cherokee people, that's really beyond the scope of this discussion, isn't it?

 

shoebox911

[shoebox911-migration]

That said, can we perhaps keep this thread centered on the point that I started it to discuss? Namely the artistic design of the coin and not the politics behind it?

 

 

You're right, Pendragon. The design is certainly not physically attractive in a traditional sense, but perhaps the designer intentionally chose to create an "ugly looking" coin to accurately reflect the ugliness of the event that is being depicted. In other words, why design a classically beautiful coin like the Walking Liberty half dollar to commemorate an event that pretty much represents a dark and embarassing chapter in our country's history?

 

Formal analysis of the coin's design:

 

The coin achieves visual balance by means of its use of standard symmetry subtly contrasting with the asymmetrical figures juxtaposed to each other in the horizontal band. Figure/ground relationships overall seem to work in harmony, although if it were my design, I would want to vertically broaden the band a bit more and reduce the size of LIBERTY somewhat to make more use of the space at the top of the coin. Otherwise, leave it as is and include the date 1957 since there's available space in the upper portion of the coin. Again, although it looks strange, I would resist the temptation to show the entire figures because that would, in effect, make the coin just another literal interpretation (which translates into boring, in my opinion).

 

shoebox911

[Zoins]

shoebox911: I believe the side showcasing LHCHS can be changed to accommodate other aspects of the event. It would be simple to show the school with the students, soldiers and mob. I believe this is what more classic designers would show for an event of this significance. The way it is now, that side is a generic view of the high school that adds no historical value and is not "emblematic of the desegregation of the Little Rock Central High School and its contributions to civil rights in America." Since the HS side does nothing to achieve the the coin's stated goal, showcasing more people involved in the desegregation event at the HS would be more appropriate IMO.

 

To me, the conflict between the Federal Government and the State of Arkansas is one of the reasons that makes the Little Rock Integration Crisis so significant. Desegregation is not a small-scale, localized issue that the coin design portrays. The Little Rock Nine students had to have the determination to go to school which is their right under law but it is the national attention at the highest levels of government that made the event so important, even garnering attention on the global stage. Using your argument that Eisenhower was simply doing his job, the Little Rock Nine were simply going to a school they were allowed to go to, however, I won't trivialize their decision to exercise their rights the way you trivialized Eisenhower's response.

 

I think the situation with the Cherokees, Andrew Jackson and SCOTUS is directly relevant to your contention that Eisenhower's actions are not noteworthy because he was simply doing his job. It indicates a shift in attitude of the executive office and the people of the United States towards minorities protected by SCOTUS that took over 100 years to achieve. If you cannot see how that is related to your point, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Michael: I agree with limiting the politics. Hopefully this response is more coin related, however I felt a need to address shoebox911's post.

[pendragon1998]

If memory serves, in the movie Forest Gump, there was a scene where Forest was at the desegregation protests at LRCHS. The director showed the scene looking at the LR nine from behind as they marched forward into the doors of the school. To either side, troops lined the walkway, and beyond the soldiers, were the protesting whites. The shot was symmetrical with the LR 9 in two columns to either side of the vertical center line and the layers of people extending outward. The LR 9 were shown resolutely striding toward the school while their guards were standing against the protesters. I think that would have symbolized the courage of the LR 9 much better than a bunch of feet.

 

It would appear that the US mint also originally thought there was a better way to depict the LR 9 - in a medal they relased in 1998. I like it better than the commem, but not as much as my own idea for the depiction. If they'd used the design from the medal, they would have had a whole additional side of the coin to do something better with.

 

[shoebox911-migration]

I believe the side showcasing LHCHS can be changed to accommodate other aspects of the event. It would be simple to show the school with the students, soldiers and mob. I believe this is what more classic designers would show for an event of this significance. The way it is now, that side is a generic view of the high school that adds no historical value and is not "emblematic of the desegregation of the Little Rock Central High School and its contributions to civil rights in America." Since the HS side does nothing to achieve the the coin's stated goal, showcasing more people involved in the desegregation event at the HS would be more appropriate IMO.

 

To me, the conflict between the Federal Government and the State of Arkansas is one of the reasons that makes the Little Rock Integration Crisis so significant. Desegregation is not a small-scale, localized issue that the coin design portrays. The Little Rock Nine students had to have the determination to go to school which is their right under law but it is the national attention at the highest levels of government that made the event so important, even garnering attention on the global stage. Using your argument that Eisenhower was simply doing his job, the Little Rock Nine were simply going to a school they were allowed to go to, however, I won't trivialize their decision to exercise their rights the way you trivialized Eisenhower's response.

 

I think the situation with the Cherokees, Andrew Jackson and SCOTUS is directly relevant to your contention that Eisenhower's actions are not noteworthy because he was simply doing his job. It indicates a shift in attitude of the executive office and the people of the United States towards minorities protected by SCOTUS that took over 100 years to achieve. If you cannot see how that is related to your point, I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

I agree with you regarding the reverse side of the coin could have been much more than depicting just the building and surrounding area and I concur that the desegregation of America was a historic event on a grand scale that has permanently altered the direction our country is heading, involving a whole multitude of people and places. However, I will remain content that the current design works for me; it's not too aesthetically pleasing, but the powerful symbolism of children being escorted to school under armed escort moves me tremendously because it sparks the imagination which lends to a number of interpretations (whose children are they?).

 

I did not mean to trivialize Eisenhower's role in the desegregation of the schools. If I recall, my first remark noted he took the right action. However, he pretty much had to what he did if one learns of the events that led up to his decision starting with Brown vs. Board in 1954. Here's a little piece of information I found on a website that puts Eisenhower's actions in context of what was happening up to his final decision to send troops:

 

Law Professor Michael Klarman says that President Eisenhower was quoted as saying in the summer of 1956 and summer of 1957 that under no circumstances would he use federal troops to enforce the Supreme Court's order to desegregate. "That pretty much meant to white southerners," Klarman says, "that they could never be forced to do what they didn't want to do, because ultimately the court order doesn't mean anything unless there's a federal army behind it."

 

While Eisenhower kept his distance, a federal court ordered Faubus to remove the Arkansas guardsmen and let the black students into Central High. On September 23rd, Faubus relented. Now with a police escort, the Little Rock Nine filed into school. The crowd at Central High School -men in work shirts, gray-haired church women and girls in checkered dresses - erupted in violence. Local police hustled the black students out of the school. The mayor of Little Rock telegrammed Eisenhower for help. The president was still reluctant to endorse integration, but saw the crisis as a challenge to federal authority. On September 24, 1957, President Eisenhower spoke from the White House.

 

"I have today issued an Executive Order directing the use of troops under Federal authority to aid in the execution of Federal law at Little Rock, Arkansas...Mob rule cannot be allowed to override the decisions of our courts."

 

.....................

 

This would suggest that Eisenhower didn't want to send troops to Little Rock or even get involved in desegregating the schools, choosing instead to let the states take care of it themselves. The only reason he ultimately sent troops was not for the sake of the black students, but because his federal authority was being challenged. In this respect, I hardly find Eisenhower's three-year delay to finally enforce the law "noteworthy." However, had Ike chosen to immediately enforce Brown vs. Board back in '54, then I could give his action much more respect. And if he personally believed in the desegregation of the schools (and I would think he should have after watching and commanding all-black army units bravely defend this country during WWII) he would have encouraged Congress to pass appropriate legislation as soon as he took office in January 1953. Now that would have been admirable leadership that even Abraham Lincoln would have been proud of.

 

shoebox911

[Zoins]

shoebox911: Do you think any President of the United States wanted to use the nation's armed forces on their own people?

 

Since you bring up Abraham Lincoln, do you think he wanted to issue the Emancipation Proclamation or even fight the Civil War to free the slaves? If so, I suggest you read some background on Lincoln like you have for Eisenhower. Lincoln was the one that said he was "not in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races." He also made it clear he fought the Civil War to preserve the Union, not to abolish slavery. Why didn't Lincoln free the slaves right after he took office or even after fighting broke out? He waited 2 and a half years before issuing the Emancipation Proclamation and did so to weaken the CSA's fighting ability by destroying their economy. In my view Lincoln and Eisenhower are both similar, if reluctant, heroes. I think Lincoln would be proud of Eisenhower's actions as is.

 

As for the mob rule overriding the decisions of our courts, that's exactly what President Andrew Jackson allowed and engaged in. Do you still think Andrew Jackson is irrelevant given your choice of quote?

 

You would have more of a case if you criticized Lincoln as well as Eisenhower. You would also have a stronger case if you didn't say the all of white America wanted "separate but equal."

 

Michael: Sorry for drawing this out. shoebox911's last post seemed to be missing some important context.

[shoebox911-migration]

shoebox911: Do you think any President of the United States wanted to use nation's armed forces on their own people?

 

Since you bring up Abraham Lincoln, do you think he wanted to issue the Emancipation Proclamation or even fight the Civil War to free the slaves? If so, I suggest you reread history. Lincoln was the one that said he was "not in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races." He also made it clear he waged the Civil War to preserve the Union not to abolish slavery. Why didn't Lincoln free the slaves right after he took office or even after fighting broke out? He waited 2 and a half years before issuing the Emancipation Proclamation and did so to weaken the CSA by destroying their economy. In my view Lincoln and Eisenhower are both similar, if reluctant, heroes.

 

You would have more of a case if you criticized Lincoln as well as Eisenhower. You would also have a stronger case if you didn't criticize all white people.

 

 

You are entitled to your opinion but the vast majority of historians rank Lincoln far above Eisenhower as presidents go. Granted, Eisenhower was a great war (hero) general but Lincoln, as President, lead this country through its worst crisis to date, the Civil War. Both showed tremendous leadership in their respective roles, but I see a vast difference between the two men's tenures as Prsident. And my remarks were meant to demonstrate that Eisenhower could have shown greater leadership as President during this country's last decade of being a totally segregated society rather than being forced to do what he did under federal mandate.

 

And if you care to reread my comments, you will note my only mention of Lincoln is strictly in reference to "leadership" qualities. I made no comments whatsoever as to why the Civil war was fought or Lincoln's reasons for conducting the war so please do no make erroneous presumptions or put words in my mouth, thank you. For the record, you are correct as to why the Civil War was fought, no argument there. However, that does not change the widely held belief that no other president in the history of our country has shown greater leadership than Lincoln.

 

For the record, I have indirectly criticized white American society in my previous comments, it's not difficult to do when the topic is the struggle for the desegregation of American education during the 1950's. But just where have I "criticized all white people?" I wonder why you seem to misconstrue my comments so easily.

 

Now, I would really like to discuss the coin again? We are straying way off the topic of this thread, wouldn't you agree?

 

shoebox911

[Zoins]

Now, I would really like to discuss the coin again? We are straying way off the topic of this thread, wouldn't you agree?

I thought that's where we were a couple of posts ago but somehow your earlier post drifted away from the coin and I felt compelled to respond. Regarding Eisenhower being "reluctant to endorse integration," I noticed that you didn't mention he instructed DC officials to integrate black and white children the very day after Brown v. Board of Education Topeka so DC could be an example for the nation. I'll refrain from more comments now.

 

As for coins, I haven't noticed you posting in any other threads. Is this the only coin you are interested in?

[Zoins]

If memory serves, in the movie Forest Gump, there was a scene where Forest was at the desegregation protests at LRCHS. The director showed the scene looking at the LR nine from behind as they marched forward into the doors of the school. To either side, troops lined the walkway, and beyond the soldiers, were the protesting whites. The shot was symmetrical with the LR 9 in two columns to either side of the vertical center line and the layers of people extending outward. The LR 9 were shown resolutely striding toward the school while their guards were standing against the protesters. I think that would have symbolized the courage of the LR 9 much better than a bunch of feet.

I agree that sounds better than a box with feet. I'll have watch Forrest Gump again to jog my memory.

It would appear that the US mint also originally thought there was a better way to depict the LR 9 - in a medal they relased in 1998. I like it better than the commem, but not as much as my own idea for the depiction. If they'd used the design from the medal, they would have had a whole additional side of the coin to do something better with.

I think that medal has a much better design than both sides of the coin. Thanks for posting it.

[shoebox911-migration]

As for coins, I haven't noticed you posting in any other threads. Is this the only coin you are interested in?

 

I'm interested in other coins but I just joined this forum yesterday and haven't had much time to look around yet. I found this site only because I was googling around looking for the announcement of the Little Rock coin. I really don't know why I'm attracted to it so much since I find most modern coins quite bland artistically speaking. Maybe because it's just so different than anything else I have seen the Mint produce.

 

I very much prefer all the great classic U.S. coins from the early 20th-century. Augustus Saint-Gaudens, Hermon MacNeil, A. A. Weinman... those sculptors were in a class by themselves. The problem today is the design process for U.S. coins is so much more complicated... too many people and committees translate into watered down designs.

 

shoebox911

[shoebox911-migration]

If memory serves, in the movie Forest Gump, there was a scene where Forest was at the desegregation protests at LRCHS. The director showed the scene looking at the LR nine from behind as they marched forward into the doors of the school. To either side, troops lined the walkway, and beyond the soldiers, were the protesting whites. The shot was symmetrical with the LR 9 in two columns to either side of the vertical center line and the layers of people extending outward. The LR 9 were shown resolutely striding toward the school while their guards were standing against the protesters. I think that would have symbolized the courage of the LR 9 much better than a bunch of feet.

 

It would appear that the US mint also originally thought there was a better way to depict the LR 9 - in a medal they relased in 1998. I like it better than the commem, but not as much as my own idea for the depiction. If they'd used the design from the medal, they would have had a whole additional side of the coin to do something better with.

 

 

The design on the medal is quite striking, but I don't think the Mint could have used even if they had wanted to. I don't remember where I read the legislation that approved this coin, but I do recall that it specifically wanted symbolism of some kind to tell the story and not show the nine students themselves. Remember, the Mint has to follow the mandates of the legislation... they can't just design whatever they desire.

 

shoebox911