A Drapped Bust (very authentic looking) Counterfeit

[WoodenJefferson]

A few days ago, DenverDave posted an auction featuring a 1803 Drapped Bust "Guess the Grade" which quickly reminded me of this particular coin. These kind of coins, like the 1799 I am showing, exsist out there and it's a buyer beware market when not looking for professionally authenticated early coinage.

 

This one is called the "Die Hard" because it refuses to die or go away, with a short descriptive article.

 

This is the most deceptive and most widely chronicled Bust dollar fake. It first surfaced in the late 1970s and has been documented in books including Scott Travers' 2006 book Coin Collector's Survival Manual, PCGS's 2004 book Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, J.P. Martin's 1996 book Detecting Counterfeit and Altered U.S. Coins, John W. Highfill's 1992 book The Comprehensive U.S. Silver Dollar Encyclopedia, and Virgil Hancock and Larry Spanbauer's 1979 book Standard Catalog of Counterfeit and Altered United States Coins and in periodicals including the ANA and IAPN's Counterfeit Coin Bulletin (June 2001) and twice in the ANA's The Numismatist (Dec. 1996 and June 1978).

 

It's a high-quality die-transfer fake that likely would fool a majority of collectors. The most telling diagnostic is the small cut in the "R" in "LIBERTY," which all fakes of this type have. Also, the surfaces are a tad over-smooth, appearing as if the coin had been whizzed. The coin has a wire rim, when in fact collars used in the minting process creating wire rims weren't introduced until around 1830. The letters in the edge of the coin are more neatly engraved than in authentic specimens.

 

Unlike many of the other fakes, this one is thought to have originated within the U.S., although the possibility exists that it originated in Lebanon, which like China and Bulgaria are centers of coin forgery. It's the correct weight, at 27.0g, and the correct alloy--silver alloyed with a small amount of copper. Michael Fahey says he has seen more than 100 specimens of this type submitted to ANACS for grading.

 

Resource: glomworthy coins, not my coin

[MikeKing]

Great post! Thanks for this bit of history and the photographs. I wonder if like the Spirati forgeries of US stamps, if these have a collector base?

[JRocco]

Great post. Thanks for the time you put into it.

[NoTwilight]

Thanks. Very well done description of the fake and the identifiers. Coincidently, I own two 1799 dollars including one I just won in the recent heritage auction. It is in a PCI slab. The other is RAW but both are a different variety than this one--BB152.

 

don't hesitate to post more of these threads...perhaps we can accumulate a bunch of them and put them in their own folder.

 

--Jerry

[bsshog40]

Nice info!!!!

[AzLarry]

That is a very attractive and authentic looking coin. On a coin with that value I would only buy in one of the top 3 TPG'S. Thanks for posting.

[Mozin]

Scary, to think some poor collector might blow his wad, send it to PCGS, and find out it is counterfeit.

 

Another reminder of why I only buy encapsulated coins from the big four grading services.

 

Good thread.

[James_OldeTowne]

This is a well-known die-struck counterfeit, immediately identifiable by the ship in the "R" of LIBERTY. I've come across three or so of these over the past ten years. They are probably always "artificially aged" as well, so as to enhance their "authenticity".

[123cents]

Thanks for the informative post. It is appreciated.

[SkyMan]

It's always good to see a post like this to remind us of some of the pitfalls in coin collecting. Thank you for the info!

[Oldtrader3]

Good informative post. I don't know much about the draped bust dollar series. Thanks for the info.

[TwoKopeiki]

I don't know anything about Draped Busts, but I do know counterfeits, since my primary focus are portrait 8 reales of Carlos III - IV and Ferdinand VII. You mention pitting in "R" as a primary way to identify this counterfeit, but what about jumping denticles below the date and above "TES" in "STATES"? Do originals have a variety where dentils are not perfectly circular?

 

Thanks for posting my favorite subject of counterfeits. I preffer contemporary, but still believe that you should own any you can get your hands on if they are in your primary collecting focus.

 

~Roman

[WoodenJefferson]

<<Do originals have a variety where dentils are not perfectly circular?>>

 

There are plenty in the Drapped Bust series where the die was not exactly centered on the coin, where the dentils almost or do completly run off the rim in one small area. As far as I know, the dentils being perfectly circular, yes they are.

 

You will not see conjoined dentilcles, missing or die bubbles in between the rim denticles on authentic US Minted Drapped Busts. There may be a slight difference in dentil lenght but they will all be uniformly spaced.

 

These extreemly well made counterfits will sell in excess of $400 on the open market. No telling how many reside in raw collections wherre the owner assumes they are for real or for that matter get recycled as real until they are sent in for grading. Then once rejected...what then?

 

I thought all questions should be answered, if not by the OP then others should chime in.

 

Thanks for all the help,

 

Anyone care to contribute to this final question by TwoKopeiki

[TwoKopeiki]

<<Do originals have a variety where dentils are not perfectly circular?>>

 

There are plenty in the Drapped Bust series where the die was not exactly centered on the coin, where the dentils almost or do completly run off the rim in one small area. As far as I know, the dentils being perfectly circular, yes they are.

 

You will not see conjoined dentilcles, missing or die bubbles in between the rim denticles on authentic US Minted Drapped Busts. There may be a slight difference in dentil lenght but they will all be uniformly spaced.

 

These extreemly well made counterfits will sell in excess of $400 on the open market. No telling how many reside in raw collections wherre the owner assumes they are for real or for that matter get recycled as real until they are sent in for grading. Then once rejected...what then?

 

I thought all questions should be answered, if not by the OP then others should chime in.

 

Thanks for all the help,

 

Anyone care to contribute to this final question by TwoKopeiki

 

Thank you for your response, WoodenJefferson.

 

Surfaces, denticles and edge are the first things I examine when looking at any coin. There are some very convincing fakes being produced by Beijing group that are starting to be almost impossible to tell from a scan. To top it off - they are starting to use correct silver alloys, which passes the "ring" test, which happen to satisfy a large number of collectors. On Portrait 8 Reales series, they haven't gotten the age correctly, yet, so there's still a way.

 

~Roman