Anyone ever see this

[MAULEMALL]

1885-O $1 "Belly Button" MS65 ANACS

[MunkyMan95]

I don't see no stinkin belly button

[cpm9ball]

He didn't say you should try to smell it. Get your nose out of it and look at the eagle.

 

The one thing I really don't care for is the stupid names given to these abnormalities. You can see all kinds of things in the clouds if you use your imagination, but they're gone in a few minutes. Thank God that someone didn't get to "Hot Lips", first, and call her "Big Mama", or "Frankenstein's Daughter" instead of "Scarface". Can anyone think of some others that definitely shouldn't be used?

 

Chris

[MunkyMan95]

PMM?

[SuperDave]

I've seen them, on this and other years of Morgans. The eagle's belly is flattened due to a partial fill on the (usually bottom) reverse die. Likely water, seeking the lowest point.

[MAULEMALL]

I've seen them, on this and other years of Morgans. The eagle's belly is flattened due to a partial fill on the (usually bottom) reverse die. Likely water, seeking the lowest point.

So it's basicly a strike through?

[SuperDave]

I've seen them, on this and other years of Morgans. The eagle's belly is flattened due to a partial fill on the (usually bottom) reverse die. Likely water, seeking the lowest point.

So it's basicly a strike through?

 

Yup.

[MAULEMALL]

I've seen them, on this and other years of Morgans. The eagle's belly is flattened due to a partial fill on the (usually bottom) reverse die. Likely water, seeking the lowest point.

So it's basicly a strike through?

 

Yup.

Thanks SD....It's nice to leave a year learning something....Have a Happy New Year..

[Conder101]

I don't think it's a case of a strike through. First the "belly" area is lower in relief than the chest area. if it had been grease it tend to migrate to the deeper recesses of the die and the detail would be missing in the chest, not the belly.

 

Second you will notice other areas of weak or missing detail around the eagles tail between the tail and the body, and in each wing where the long wing feather meet the second feathers. These are some of the shallowest areas of the design. Loss of detail in these areas is normally the result of overpolishing of the die. That is what I believe was the reason for the bellybutton dollar.

[coxe]

It applies to many Morgan dates and should not add any premium whatsoever to the coin. For some, it might suggest a discount. Belly buttons are nothing special on Morgans. (Except maybe Morgan Fairchild....yeah, that's the ticket.)

[SuperDave]

I don't think it's a case of a strike through. First the "belly" area is lower in relief than the chest area. if it had been grease it tend to migrate to the deeper recesses of the die and the detail would be missing in the chest, not the belly.

 

Second you will notice other areas of weak or missing detail around the eagles tail between the tail and the body, and in each wing where the long wing feather meet the second feathers. These are some of the shallowest areas of the design. Loss of detail in these areas is normally the result of overpolishing of the die. That is what I believe was the reason for the bellybutton dollar.

 

Reasonable logic. Why, and how, would they be polishing the deeper-recessed areas of the die, though? Although, as you say, the "bellybutton" isn't at the lowest point of the die, it's definitely well below "sea level".

 

Maybe the result of having to fix a working hub?

[Conder101]

They aren't polishing the deeper-recessed areas of the dies, they are polishing the fields which are the highest parts of the dies (lowest parts of the coin). As the field is ground down it eventually reaches the same level as the shallowest recesses of the design and then those areas of the lowest relief of the design will disappear. With a little more polishing the areas where the long wing feathers meet the second feather become disconnected and flat polished areas with no design begins to appear between them because those areas would then be the same level as the fields.

[SuperDave]

They aren't polishing the deeper-recessed areas of the dies, they are polishing the fields which are the highest parts of the dies (lowest parts of the coin). As the field is ground down it eventually reaches the same level as the shallowest recesses of the design and then those areas of the lowest relief of the design will disappear. With a little more polishing the areas where the long wing feathers meet the second feather become disconnected and flat polished areas with no design begins to appear between them because those areas would then be the same level as the fields.

 

That all makes sense for the detail lacking in the wings and tail, examples of which I already own. We still haven't come up with a reasonable alternative for the "bellybutton" feature, which as you said doesn't follow logical reasoning to be a fill, even a grease fill. That is, however, how I'd heard it described across the street and by Heritage (yes, I know ).

 

I distinctly remember seeing this feature illustrated on an 1880 (IIRC a San Francisco coin but I could be wrong), and an 1896 if memory serves.